Hard Thermo Question: Find U, S, T For Part B & C

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamics problem related to finding internal energy (U), entropy (S), and temperature (T) for specific parts of a question derived from a textbook. Participants are exploring concepts from statistical mechanics and thermodynamics, particularly in the context of multiplicity and temperature calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss their attempts to solve parts B and C of the problem, with one noting a struggle with the concepts despite having solved part A. Another participant shares their approach to finding temperature using derivatives of multiplicity and questions the method of differentiating factorials. There is mention of using Stirling's approximation to simplify calculations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing their progress and methods. Some have made headway on part B, while others express confusion about part C. There is no explicit consensus on the approaches being taken, and various interpretations of the problem are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that they are using specific textbooks and that they may not have covered all necessary material in their current studies, which could be impacting their understanding of the problem.

mewmew
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Well, it's hard to me at least :frown:
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/206/questionzg0.png
We are using Schroeders book and this problem was given to us from I assume the book by Reif. We haven't seem to have gotten far enough along in Schroeders book to have gone over this though.

I can do part A, but part B and C I am clueless on. I know that T = partial derivative of U/S but it doesn't seem to be helping me very much. Thanks in advance for any pointers.
 
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Ok, I found B more or less, by taking n=E/e. My equation for T looks pretty nasty because my multiplicity from part A was relatively nasty. I am still pretty much completely stuck on how to do C though.
 
What do you get for A? I get

\Omega(N,n)=\binom{N}{N-n}=\frac{N!}{n!(N-n)!}

(the number of ways to pick the position of the N-n atomes that are not in an interstititiisal position.

Temperature is \frac{1}{kT}=\frac{\partial \Omega(N,n)}{\partial E}.

I guess you said, n=n(E)=E/\epsilon, so then

\frac{\partial \Omega(N,n)}{\partial E}=\frac{\partial \Omega(N,n)}{\partial n}\frac{\partial n}{\partial E}= \frac{\partial \Omega(N,n)}{\partial n}\frac{1}{\epsilon}

But do you know how to take the derivative of a factorial?
 
Last edited:
Sorry, I Should have been more specific. I took a Sterling approximation of the factorials of the form Ln(x!)= x Ln(x) - x, expanded each term, substituted in n = E/epsilon and differentiated. This was messy though and I am not sure the desired method.
 

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