Hawking radiation and information

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of Hawking radiation and its implications for information conservation in black holes. Participants explore the relationship between particles entering a black hole and those emitted as Hawking radiation, questioning whether information is preserved after a black hole evaporates.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if a proton enters a black hole, an anti-proton should be emitted via Hawking radiation, implying a conservation of information.
  • Another participant counters that Hawking radiation originates from the surroundings of the black hole and is a thermal mixture of particles, not directly related to what has fallen in.
  • There is a question about the properties of a Hawking radiation particle, with a participant noting that it can be measured for energy, mass, and momentum.
  • A later reply discusses the concept of virtual particles, suggesting that one particle escapes the black hole with positive energy while the other contributes negative energy, raising questions about the correctness of this interpretation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between particles entering a black hole and those emitted as Hawking radiation. There is no consensus on whether information is conserved or the implications of the properties of Hawking radiation.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on specific interpretations of quantum mechanics and thermodynamics, and the discussion highlights unresolved aspects of how energy is accounted for in the context of black holes and Hawking radiation.

acesuv
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say you measured every particle which has entered a black hole
say you measured every hawking radiation particle which exits the black hole

my understanding is that if like... a proton enters the black hole, then an anti-proton needs to be emitted via hawking radiation. so if you measure every particle the black hole ever emits, you should be able to reconcile both the number of particles which have entered the black hole, and the type of particle which enters the black hole (ie proton, neutron, electron)

has the information been conserved after the black hole evaporates, or is some information still missing? is my understanding even accurate? thanks
 
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acesuv said:
say you measured every hawking radiation particle which exits the black hole
Hawking radiation does not come from inside the black hole. It comes from the nearby surroundings.

acesuv said:
my understanding is that if like... a proton enters the black hole, then an anti-proton needs to be emitted via hawking radiation.
Hawking radiation is a thermal mixture of all types of particles. What is emitted bears no relation to what type of matter has fallen into the hole.
 
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Bill_K said:
Hawking radiation does not come from inside the black hole. It comes from the nearby surroundings.


Hawking radiation is a thermal mixture of all types of particles. What is emitted bears no relation to what type of matter has fallen into the hole.

if you measured a given hawking radiation particle, what would it look like?
 
acesuv said:
if you measured a given hawking radiation particle, what would it look like?

It's a particle, so it has various properties that can be measured: energy, mass, momentum, ...

You'd measure any of these for a particle emitted by the Hawking process the same way you'd measure that property for a particle emitted by any other process. And as Bill_K says above, that measurement tells us nothing about what went into the black hole; Hawking radiation doesn't come from inside the hole.
 
Nugatory said:
It's a particle, so it has various properties that can be measured: energy, mass, momentum, ...

You'd measure any of these for a particle emitted by the Hawking process the same way you'd measure that property for a particle emitted by any other process. And as Bill_K says above, that measurement tells us nothing about what went into the black hole; Hawking radiation doesn't come from inside the hole.
well, i understand (i think) that each pair of virtual particles is 0 energy combined. the particle which escapes the black hole becomes real (and therefore has positive energy?) while the other one falls into the black hole and contributes negative energy any particle transfers negative energy

is this at all correct?
 

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