Help needed Analyzing a real op amp with both positive and negative feedback

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around analyzing a non-ideal operational amplifier (op amp) with both positive and negative feedback. Participants are seeking guidance on how to approach the assignment, which involves understanding the circuit's behavior, particularly in terms of oscillation and voltage across a capacitor.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how to start the analysis and requests hints or ideas.
  • Another participant questions the initial conditions of the circuit and the role of a 1uF capacitor in the equivalent circuit.
  • Some participants suggest that the circuit will oscillate with a frequency determined by a potentiometer and recommend focusing on the negative feedback while drawing the circuit as an ideal op amp with a capacitor on the output.
  • There is mention of the op amp charging the capacitor until the output flips, leading to discharging, with positive feedback influencing the trip points and frequency.
  • One participant asks for equations to better understand the points made regarding the circuit's behavior.
  • Another participant suggests simplifying the analysis by assuming the output is clamped to power supply levels when inputs are unbalanced, likening the op amp's function to that of a comparator.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the oscillatory nature of the circuit and the importance of feedback types, but there is no consensus on specific analytical approaches or equations to use. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact methods for analysis.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not provided specific initial conditions or detailed circuit parameters, which may limit the analysis. The discussion also reflects varying levels of understanding and approaches to the problem.

Rio20
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Hi
this is my first subject in this forum and i hope you can help
1.we have been given an assignment to analyze this non-ideal op amp with both positive and negative feedback and to be honest i don't even know where to start


i know i should post an attempt of trying to solve but honestly i don't know how to ,, so please give me hints or ideas and i will go through them

thanks forum
 

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Rio20 said:
Hi
this is my first subject in this forum and i hope you can help
1.we have been given an assignment to analyze this non-ideal op amp with both positive and negative feedback and to be honest i don't even know where to start


i know i should post an attempt of trying to solve but honestly i don't know how to ,, so please give me hints or ideas and i will go through them

thanks forum

Welcome to the PF.

Is there more to the question? What are the initial conditions of the circuit? Is there some Vi(t) somewhere, or just the circuit?

And what is the 1uF cap doing on the output of the "equivalent circuit" on the right?
 
It's going to oscillate with a frequency determined by the pot.

Ignore the positive feedback and consider the negative. Draw the circuit as an ideal OpAmp with a capacitor on the output. You'll see that the OpAmp charges the cap to a point where the output flips and then reverses so that the cap is discharging.

The positive feedback determines the trip points and therefore the frequency.
 
berkeman said:
Welcome to the PF.

Is there more to the question? What are the initial conditions of the circuit? Is there some Vi(t) somewhere, or just the circuit?

And what is the 1uF cap doing on the output of the "equivalent circuit" on the right?

thnx for welcoming me berkema :D .

there is no Vi(t) and the equivalent circuit is drawn next to it ,, we asked asked to analyze the following op amp in a non ideal way and get the voltage that will be on the capacitor and draw it ,,, it's more like an really very very complex RC circuit
 
Antiphon said:
It's going to oscillate with a frequency determined by the pot.

Ignore the positive feedback and consider the negative. Draw the circuit as an ideal OpAmp with a capacitor on the output. You'll see that the OpAmp charges the cap to a point where the output flips and then reverses so that the cap is discharging.

The positive feedback determines the trip points and therefore the frequency.

thnx antiphon and i think i got ur point ,, but can u show me some equations so i can fully understand ur point and thnx
 
Rio20 said:
thnx antiphon and i think i got ur point ,, but can u show me some equations so i can fully understand ur point and thnx

Sorry I can't take the time to work it out.

Assume that the output is clamped to the power supply levels when the inputs are not balanced. This simplifies your analysis to an RC circuit and the voltage dividers on the inputs.

The OpAmp will act like a comparator.
 

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