Help understanding a group theory proof

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding a proof in group theory related to the permutation group, specifically addressing the statement that if the identity permutation of a set is represented by a certain number of transpositions, then that number must be even. The original poster is struggling with the induction proof, particularly for the cases of n=2 and n=3.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the base case of n=2 and the implications of the identity permutation fixing all elements. There is an exploration of the n=3 case, with attempts to understand how compositions of swaps relate to the identity permutation. Questions arise about the induction step and how to formalize reasoning regarding the number of swaps needed to maintain the identity.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the proof, sharing insights and attempting to clarify their understanding of the induction method. Some have suggested alternative approaches, such as proving the n=3 case first, while others express uncertainty about how to articulate their reasoning formally. There is no explicit consensus yet, but the discussion is generating productive lines of inquiry.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of induction proofs in abstract algebra, with specific focus on permutations and transpositions. There are indications of varying levels of comfort with the induction method, and some participants are considering examples to aid their understanding.

11ee1
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iam currently studying undergraduate abstract algebra and i have reached to the permutation group topic i understand every thing till now but iam having trouble understanding the proof of

"IF the identity permutation I of {1,2...n} is represented by m transpositions then m is even"

I understand that the identity permutation should fix all the number that u put in it so I(1)=1 I(2)=2 etc..


so the proof is by induction it start with n=2 so I is represented by (12)(12)(12)...

in which it is easy to see that m should be even since I keeps switching 1with 2 till they are in the same position they were in the beginning and (12) fixes all other numbers

but then how do u do the induction step??

I don't even understand how it would work for n=3 :( everything was flowing well but then iam stuck with this...if anyone can help me it would be really appreciated
 
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I think it will be easier to do the n=3 case first, and then prove that for all integers p≥2, if the statement holds for n=p, then it holds for n=p+2.

For the n=3 case, prove that if f is the composition of two swaps, then either f=I or f(k)≠k for all k in {1,2,3}.
 
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thnx fredrik for the reply..

i have though about it again before i read ur reply and it seems i proved without the need for induction iam still having trouble using induction as a proof method sadly :(

anyways i though for n=2 there are 2 numbers that the Identity permutation should fix or else it wouldn't be Identity ,in this case it is obvious that it must have even numbers of swaps to cancel each swap effect...

for n=3 there are 3 numbers that I(n) should fix,

for 1 it must have even number of swaps of the form (1n) to keep 1 in its place or have "another swap" that doesn't contain 1 in the first place so it fix it automatically..

but the swap that doesn't contain 1 would swap something else 2 or 3 in this case so we must have even number of this "other swap" to cancel its effect on 2 or 3

and so they must be even

and so for a composition of transpositions to work as an identity permutation and fix all numbers then they must be even in number..since for every number there will be even swaps to fix that number...Now the problem is HOW DO I WRITE THIS IN A FORMAL WAY
 
and i don't understand how proving if f is the composition of two swaps, then either f=I or f(k)≠k would prove that the number of swaps must be even for I(n)

i understand its either that the two swaps are the same (12)(12),(13)(13),(23)(23) so f=I

or they are different (12)(23) in this case it doesn't fix 1 or 3 and iam guessing 2 as well
 
11ee1 said:
and i don't understand how proving if f is the composition of two swaps, then either f=I or f(k)≠k would prove that the number of swaps must be even for I(n)
Keep in mind that we're talking about the n=3 case here. A permutation of {1,2,3} can be thought of as a rearrangement of the members of the ordered triple (1,2,3). If you find all the possible rearrangements of (1,2,3) that are the result of two swaps, you will see that none of them is restored to (1,2,3) by a single swap, meaning that there's no composition of 3 swaps that's equal to the identity. That's at least a good start of the proof of the n=3 case.
 
ohh i see i might try that and see how would it change with n=4 i think by enough examples i would see how the induction step would work thnx
 

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