Help with derivative of trigonometric functions

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the derivative of the function \( y = \frac{\sin(x) \sec(x)}{1 + x \tan(x)} \). Participants are exploring the application of the quotient rule and addressing difficulties encountered in the differentiation process.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to differentiate the function using the quotient rule and are expressing confusion about their intermediate steps, particularly regarding the presence of an extra \( x \) in their results. Some suggest simplifying the expression before differentiation to make the process easier.

Discussion Status

There is ongoing exploration of different methods to approach the differentiation, with some participants providing guidance on manipulating the expression for clarity. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being discussed, and participants are actively seeking clarification on their reasoning and methods.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the importance of proper notation and clarity in their expressions, indicating that the formatting of their work may have contributed to misunderstandings. There is also mention of the need to apply both the product rule and the quotient rule appropriately in their calculations.

Splice1108
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Find y[itex]^{I}[/itex] (sinxsecx)/1+xtanx The supplied answer is 1/(1+xtanx)[itex]^{2}[/itex]
I got stuck with an extra x on top at the end. Where did I mess up at?
y[itex]^{I}[/itex](sinxsecx)/1+xtanx = [1+xtanx*f[itex]^{I}[/itex](sinxsecx)-sinxsecx*f[itex]^{I}[/itex](1+xtanx)]/(1+xtanx)[itex]^{2}[/itex] = [1+xtanx((cos/1)*(1/cos))-((cos/1)*(1/cos))*(0-1*(-cos/sin))]/(1xtanx)[itex]^{2}[/itex]=[1+x*(sinx/cosx)*(cosx/sinx)*(-1)+1]/(1+xtanx)[itex]^{2}[/itex]=(1+(x)(1)(-1)+1)/(1+xtanx)[itex]^{2}[/itex]
I realize how much of a mess it is. I suspect it's something very simple that I missed.
 
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Begin by manipulating your initial expression first:

[tex]\frac{\sin x\sec x}{(1+x\tan x)}=\frac{\frac{\sin x}{\cos x}}{(1+x\tan x)}=\frac{\tan x}{(1+x\tan x)}=\frac{1}{(x+\cot x)}[/tex]
This should be much easier to differentiate.
 
Splice1108 said:

Homework Statement


[ b] Find y[itex]^{I}[/itex] (sinxsecx)/1+xtanx The supplied answer is 1/(1+xtanx)[itex]^{2}[/itex][/b]

Homework Equations



The Attempt at a Solution


[ b]I got stuck with an extra x on top at the end. Where did I mess up at?[/b]

[ b]y[itex]^{I}[/itex](sinxsecx)/1+xtanx = [1+xtanx*f[itex]^{I}[/itex](sinxsecx)-sinxsecx*f[itex]^{I}[/itex](1+xtanx)]/(1+xtanx)[itex]^{2}[/itex] = [1+xtanx((cos/1)*(1/cos))-((cos/1)*(1/cos))*(0-1*(-cos/sin))]/(1xtanx)[itex]^{2}[/itex]=[1+x*(sinx/cosx)*(cosx/sinx)*(-1)+1]/(1+xtanx)[itex]^{2}[/itex]=(1+(x)(1)(-1)+1)/(1+xtanx)[itex]^{2}[/itex] [/b]
I realize how much of a mess it is. I suspect it's something very simple that I missed.
Hello Splice1108. Welcome to PF !

Please don't display your posts in bold typeface.

Please DO leave the supplied text from the template in tact. -- That should remain in bold.

Parentheses (and other symbols) are important.

I assume your problem is something like:
Find y' for the following.

y = (sin(x)sec(x))/(1 + x∙tan(x))

Added in Edit:
I see that you have corrected the boldface type.
 
Splice1108 said:
Find y[itex]^{I}[/itex] (sinxsecx)/1+xtanx The supplied answer is 1/(1+xtanx)[itex]^{2}[/itex]
First off, you don't find yI or y' of something. y' already is the derivative of y. To indicate that you intend to take the derivative, but haven't done so yet, use the d/dx operator, as in this example:
d/dx(x2) = 2x.
Splice1108 said:
I got stuck with an extra x on top at the end. Where did I mess up at?



y[itex]^{I}[/itex](sinxsecx)/1+xtanx = [1+xtanx*f[itex]^{I}[/itex](sinxsecx)-sinxsecx*f[itex]^{I}[/itex](1+xtanx)]/(1+xtanx)[itex]^{2}[/itex] = [1+xtanx((cos/1)*(1/cos))-((cos/1)*(1/cos))*(0-1*(-cos/sin))]/(1xtanx)[itex]^{2}[/itex]=[1+x*(sinx/cosx)*(cosx/sinx)*(-1)+1]/(1+xtanx)[itex]^{2}[/itex]=(1+(x)(1)(-1)+1)/(1+xtanx)[itex]^{2}[/itex]
I realize how much of a mess it is. I suspect it's something very simple that I missed.
And it's very difficult to read.

This is what you want to find:
$$ \frac{d}{dx} \frac{sin(x) sec(x)}{1 + x tan(x)}$$

The first thing to do, since this is a quotient, is to use the quotient rule, so
$$ \frac{d}{dx} \frac{sin(x) sec(x)}{1 + x tan(x)} = \frac{(1 + xtan(x))d/dx(sin(x) * sec(x)) - sin(x) * sec(x) * d/dx(1 + x tan(x))}{(1 + x tan(x))^2}$$

Keep working at it a little at a time.
 
Have you guys tried taking the derivative of the final relationship I manipulated the initial function into in post #2? All the messy math is removed when you start out with this relationship. It only took me a minute or two to get the final answer. Try it an see.
 
I'm going to try to retype my attempted work in a more readable manner.

I used the quotient rule to get:
[itex]\frac{(1+xtanx)\frac{d}{dx}(sinxsecx)-(sinxsecx)\ast\frac{d}{dx}(1+xtanx)}{(1+xtanx)}[/itex]

Then went on trying to cancel out the top since the denominator was already the value i was trying to achieve.
[itex]\frac{(1+xtanx)(-cosx\ast secx\ast tanx)-(sinxsecx)\frac{d}{dx}(1+xtanx)}{(1+xtanx)^{2}}[/itex]

I'm unsure how to go about differentiating the (1+xtanx) Is it just (sec[itex]^{2}[/itex]x)?

I'm stumped as far as where the next step should be.

Also, I appreciate the assistance with getting started on here.
 
Splice1108 said:
I'm going to try to retype my attempted work in a more readable manner.

I used the quotient rule to get:
[itex]\frac{(1+xtanx)\frac{d}{dx}(sinxsecx)-(sinxsecx)\ast\frac{d}{dx}(1+xtanx)}{(1+xtanx)}[/itex]

Then went on trying to cancel out the top since the denominator was already the value i was trying to achieve.
[itex]\frac{(1+xtanx)(-cosx\ast secx\ast tanx)-(sinxsecx)\frac{d}{dx}(1+xtanx)}{(1+xtanx)^{2}}[/itex]

I'm unsure how to go about differentiating the (1+xtanx) Is it just (sec[itex]^{2}[/itex]x)?

I'm stumped as far as where the next step should be.

Also, I appreciate the assistance with getting started on here.

No, the derivative of (1+x*tan(x)) isn't sec(x)^2. You need to start using the product rule. Same issue for the first derivative. That is a big step up in readability though!
 
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