Hooke's law from first principles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of Hooke's law from first principles, specifically examining the adequacy of a purely electrostatic model in explaining elasticity. Participants explore theoretical frameworks, including quantum mechanics and classical mechanics, in relation to interatomic forces and their implications for Hooke's law.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the feasibility of deriving Hooke's law from a purely electrostatic model, citing Earnshaw's theorem and the nature of electrostatic forces.
  • Another participant proposes that in solids, atoms exist at an energy minimum where electrostatic attraction and Pauli repulsion balance, suggesting a Taylor series expansion can lead to Hooke's law.
  • A different participant notes that Hooke's law can be applied to various forces for small displacements, raising the question of whether Pauli repulsion can be modeled classically.
  • It is mentioned that Pauli repulsion is explained by quantum mechanics, while nuclear electrostatic repulsion may also influence atomic spacing, though the extent is uncertain.
  • Empirical models, such as the Lennard-Jones potential, are referenced as ways to incorporate repulsive forces in classical frameworks.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the adequacy of electrostatic models for explaining elasticity, with some supporting the quantum mechanical perspective while others seek classical explanations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to modeling these forces.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the applicability of electrostatic models and the extent to which classical mechanics can account for quantum effects like Pauli repulsion. The discussion also highlights the dependence on specific definitions and empirical models.

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Following a discussion in this forum, I have a question: Is it possible to derive Hooke's law from first principles?

I think a purely electrostatic model is not adequate: Earnshaw theorem would imply there's no "relaxed" position. Also, electrostatic forces get weaker with increasing distance, the opposite trend of spring forces.

Is my reasoning correct? Have I overlooked something? Is it possible to create a purely electrostatic model of elasticity?
 
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Absolutely. In solids, atoms sit at an energy minimum (specifically, electrostatic attraction balanced by Pauli repulsion) that governs interatomic spacing. The energy values [itex]E(x_0+\Delta x)[/itex] around any minimum at [itex]x_0[/itex] can be expanded as a Taylor series,

[tex]E(x_0+\Delta x)=E(x_0)+\frac{\partial E(x_0)}{\partial x}\Delta x+\frac{1}{2}\frac{\partial^2 E(x_0)}{\partial x^2}(\Delta x)^2+\dots\approx \frac{1}{2}\frac{\partial E(x_0)}{\partial x}(\Delta x)^2[/tex]

which is Hooke's Law where [itex]k=\partial^2 E(x_0)/\partial^2 x[/itex] (taking [itex]E(x_0)[/itex] as our energy reference and noting that [itex]\partial E(x_0)/\partial x[/itex] is zero because we're at an energy minimum). Does this answer your question?
 
You Taylor series reminded me we may model spring forces with nearly any kind of forces - since Hooke's law is linear, many forces will fit it for suficiently small displacements.

So there's something that avoids the consequences of Earnshaw's theorem- Pauli Repulsion.
Is Pauli Repulsion explained with quantum mechanics? Or is there a way of modelling this repulsion using only classical mechanics?
 
Pauli repulsion is indeed explained with QM. And on the classical side, nuclear electrostatic repulsion may play a part too in controlling equilibrium atomic spacing, though I don't know offhand to what extent.

These effects are often modeled empirically with a repulsion term (e.g., in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennard-Jones_potential" ).
 
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