Are Horoscopes Truly Reflective of Reality?

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The discussion centers around the validity and interpretation of horoscopes, with participants expressing skepticism about their accuracy and purpose. Many view daily horoscopes as entertainment rather than serious guidance, arguing that they are often generalized and profit-driven. A distinction is made between standard horoscopes and natal charts, with the latter considered more insightful for understanding personal tendencies. The conversation also touches on the historical and philosophical aspects of astrology, questioning how celestial alignments at birth might influence personality. Ultimately, the consensus leans towards using astrology as a tool for self-reflection rather than a definitive predictor of fate.
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Do you read your horoscopes daily?
How serious do you treat it?
If the horoscopes say today you may have bad luck if you go out,
will you believe it and keep yourself at home?

I don't believe it at all.

Horoscope is like fortunetelling, just bull****s :biggrin:
 
Physics news on Phys.org
But they can be fun.
 
if it is not accurate, how can it be fun ?
 
Just fun, for the sake of being silly, not serious. You know, to laugh at.
 
Laughing is immoral
 
The_Professional said:
Laughing is immoral

I knew it must be. I'm so immoral. Saint always tells me so. :smile:
 
mocking is immoral, laughing is healthy
 
as a student of astrology for 14 years, horoscopes you read in the newspaper, internet, etc are a bunch of BS...they are made up to make money...if you truly want to understand yourself through astrology, get your natal chart done by a reputable astrologist who will tell you what your tendencies are and not what your future holds because every educated and honest astrologer will tell you that YOU are in charge of your choices, goals and aspirations within the boundaries of your personality (what a natal chart may show you) and the experiences you have gone through to mold your perspectives...

*steps off soap box*
 
I was born in 1969, 20th March, 6:15am,
can you tell me what is my tendency?
How long will i live?
What kind of profession is the most suitable for me?
 
  • #10
Actually, there is a formula for death but it is considered unethical for an astrologer to actually do so. I did use the formula and it actually worked for the celebrity I chose.

To do your chart I'd need your place of birth :biggrin:
 
  • #11
0TheSwerve0 said:
Actually, there is a formula for death but it is considered unethical for an astrologer to actually do so. I did use the formula and it actually worked for the celebrity I chose.

To do your chart I'd need your place of birth :biggrin:

Penang, malaysia
 
  • #12
Saint said:
I was born in 1969, 20th March, 6:15am,
can you tell me what is my tendency?
How long will i live?
What kind of profession is the most suitable for me?

the last two questions are those only you can answer for yourself...to use astrology as prediction is not practicing correctly (IMO).
 
  • #14
Ah, I love Maddox.
"DAMN YOU NEPTUNE!" LoL
 
  • #15
  • #16
Kerrie said:
as a student of astrology for 14 years, horoscopes you read in the newspaper, internet, etc are a bunch of BS...they are made up to make money...if you truly want to understand yourself through astrology, get your natal chart done by a reputable astrologist who will tell you what your tendencies are and not what your future holds because every educated and honest astrologer will tell you that YOU are in charge of your choices, goals and aspirations within the boundaries of your personality (what a natal chart may show you) and the experiences you have gone through to mold your perspectives...

*steps off soap box*

Who invented the natal chart and astrology? How was it invented and by what means? I don't understand how a celestial body can suddenly influence you at the time of birth. So the moment your head finds air out of your mom a few stars rain some power down on you and you can now be decribed by a natal chart? I am very confused.
 
  • #17
Greg Bernhardt said:
Who invented the natal chart and astrology? How was it invented and by what means? I don't understand how a celestial body can suddenly influence you at the time of birth. So the moment your head finds air out of your mom a few stars rain some power down on you and you can now be decribed by a natal chart? I am very confused.


astrology is extremely ancient in the most basic form, and it is based upon that all of life is one, thus the natal chart is sort of a mirror or reflection of what is going on with the geometric aspects of large planetary bodies...it is based upon the notion that we are of the same material at the most basic level thus the "theory" of astrology:
as above, so below
as within, so without
as the soul, so the universe

the mindset of many today is that we separate ourselves from the natual world instead of remembering we are a part of it...
 
  • #18
  • #19
how about fortune-telling, can it be accurate?
 
  • #20
Saint said:
how about fortune-telling, can it be accurate?

Google on cold reading.
 
  • #22
Kerrie said:
cute website, unfortunately it shows how ignorant you are on it :rolleyes:

I just don't believe that the alignment of the planets on the day I was born in an only partially sampled volume of 1.33 pi * 1,000,000,000,000 cubic lightyears has anything to do with my tendencies as a human being.
 
  • #23
My personal experience with horoscopes is rather hit-or-miss. Then again, most of the ones that I've read were the type that Kerrie said that tried to predict the future, when the real ones (?) are just supposed to measure tendencies.

Kerrie, I've never gotten a natal chart done before, perhaps these natal charts hold some sort of insight compared to the standard horoscopes that plague the internet. Ill try to keep an open mind about things, but being both inquisitive, curious, and skeptical at the same time tends to leave me confused more often than not .
 
  • #24
Zlex said:
I just don't believe that the alignment of the planets on the day I was born in an only partially sampled volume of 1.33 pi * 1,000,000,000,000 cubic lightyears has anything to do with my tendencies as a human being.


read my above description of astrology instead of your daily horoscope from the newspaper, keeping an unbiased perspective...
 
  • #27
0TheSwerve0 said:
For starters, here's your chart Saint

I'm presently worming out all the secrets from it :eek:

i use astro.com as well, but the image doesn't show with that link?

saint~swerve is providing a service that costs $50-$100 normally...this is really generous of her to interpret.

MIH~the 5th house tends to portray morals typically...i would be curious to know what aspects saint has to this house or any of the planets residing with in it...in this forum, he does tend to focus on morality and children (also governed by the fifth house)...

Kerrie, I've never gotten a natal chart done before, perhaps these natal charts hold some sort of insight compared to the standard horoscopes that plague the internet. Ill try to keep an open mind about things, but being both inquisitive, curious, and skeptical at the same time tends to leave me confused more often than not

i am glad one skeptic is not so biased...yes, the internet is full of astrology BS that try to tell you who you are. what many skeptics don't know is how much astrology is based on geometry, astronomy and pyschology...it's the subjective intepretation of all of these that cannot be pinned down to a science because a true astrologist recognizes that we have free choice in what we do or become in our lives...astrology is sort of a "genetic" code of your personality, you might have strong tendencies in one area of your life but can control it by free choice...often i have found that parents and their children have many similarities in their chart!

swerve~good to see someone else who has a solid grounding of astrology then just me :smile:
 
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  • #28
Hmmm, any reason why it would expire?Try this

The problem is conveying all that information concisely.
I wonder if I could do charts for extra money in college. :smile:
 
  • #29
Wow! See that Venus in the 2nd house Saint? That explains your love for the good life! And the Sun in your first house I would be inclined to say that you have an exceptional self confidence and leadership skills. Lots of activity in the 7th house, house of marriage...how's the wife these days? :-p Mars near the MC, which could show high motivation for your career?
 
  • #30
Kerrie said:
cute website, unfortunately it shows how ignorant you are on it :rolleyes:

I thought you had the same opinion of horoscopes. :confused:
 
  • #31
Kerrie, do you use Koch or Placidus? It's set Placidus, but I've heard Koch is also good for natal charts.
 
  • #32
Tom Mattson said:
I thought you had the same opinion of horoscopes. :confused:

Tom, this is from the first paragraph of the link:

While we're at it, let's stop using the phrase "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual." Every time I hear anyone call themselves "spiritual," it's just after they mention astrology and just before I land a flying elbow to their ovaries (as anyone who believes in astrology is undoubtedly a woman who needs to be punched in the crotch

Blatantly ignorant...it also stereotypes those who think they know something of astrology and those who understand how it works as one group of people, which is not the reality...

the source of the website comes from one arrogant and self-righteous author, and his/her attitude that most of our quality members here are above.

as a teacher of science Tom, you should do your homework on something like this before condoning it :wink:
 
  • #33
0TheSwerve0 said:
Kerrie, do you use Koch or Placidus? It's set Placidus, but I've heard Koch is also good for natal charts.

placidus, i have yet to learn about koch...when life lends me some time, i will read up on it!
 
  • #34
I always found this webpage properly conveys my opinion of horoscopes.

http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=astrology

Ha! I love Maddox! I got one of his shirts with his picture that looks like El Che and people ask me if I'm a communist.
 
  • #35
Kerrie said:
as a teacher of science Tom, you should do your homework on something like this before condoning it :wink:

But it was so funny! :redface:
 
  • #36
How important is the time of birth ? And how sensitive to the time is the accuracy of the chart ? Even if this system is intrinsically flawless, would there not be a large number of incorrect readings for people born in the 60s and 70s because of the changes in the standard time scales and calendars (even assumng all hospital clocks were synchronized to GMT or some established standard) ?

Both time scales and calendars (see BobG's related posts in GD and Brain Teasers) were so wrong during most of this time, that really, anyone born between 1967 and 1977 doesn't know really when he/she was born. So would it be unwise/unethical to draw up a horoscope for any such person ?
 
  • #37
Gokul43201 said:
How important is the time of birth ? And how sensitive to the time is the accuracy of the chart ? Even if this system is intrinsically flawless, would there not be a large number of incorrect readings for people born in the 60s and 70s because of the changes in the standard time scales and calendars (even assumng all hospital clocks were synchronized to GMT or some established standard) ?

Both time scales and calendars (see BobG's related posts in GD and Brain Teasers) were so wrong during most of this time, that really, anyone born between 1967 and 1977 doesn't know really when he/she was born. So would it be unwise/unethical to draw up a horoscope for any such person ?

Time of birth creates the divisions for the cusps of the houses and the angles (1st, 4th, 7th, 10th house cusp). You can still interpret planets in signs and aspects (the Moon is the fastest moving but still stays within one sign for about a day). But yes, it is a big part of synthesizing a chart, but not a total loss. In that case, I guess you'd have to ask someone who was there wearing their own watch.

Example, You know you have your Moon in Aquarius but since you don't know the house it is in, you won't know which affairs the Moon is concerned with. If you did know your exact time, and found out your Moon was in the 9th house, you'd know your Moon (emotions, unconscious self, comfort) are tied to travel, higher learning, foreign lands, new encounters/ideas/cultures (the 9th house affairs). But even without this you could still interpret how the Moon deals with Aquarian energy.
 
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  • #38
Greg Bernhardt said:
Who invented the natal chart and astrology? How was it invented and by what means? I don't understand how a celestial body can suddenly influence you at the time of birth. So the moment your head finds air out of your mom a few stars rain some power down on you and you can now be decribed by a natal chart? I am very confused.

You know, I had these same questions, and according to Swerve, it isn't the celestial body that influences your tendencies. It's really just the time and location that you are in when born, based upon some principle that cycles of the heavens mimic cycles in the behavioral tendencies of human beings (something to do with the connectedness of person and nature that Kerrie speaks of). This allows names based on the presence of a certain constellation to be used to describe a particular class of behavioral tendencies, but the correlation of constellation and tendency is only incidental, not causal.

I still don't really understand it. The main issue I see is that even if we were to believe that tendencies can be imparted solely by temporal-spatial location, it still seems to me that they should be imparted at the time of conception, not at birth. Birth just seems so arbitrary. Why would I have had different tendencies had I not been born premature? Either way, every chart I've seen her do has been pretty good and she actually has helped me to understand certain things about myself.
 
  • #39
loseyourname said:
You know, I had these same questions, and according to Swerve, it isn't the celestial body that influences your tendencies. It's really just the time and location that you are in when born, based upon some principle that cycles of the heavens mimic cycles in the behavioral tendencies of human beings (something to do with the connectedness of person and nature that Kerrie speaks of). This allows names based on the presence of a certain constellation to be used to describe a particular class of behavioral tendencies, but the correlation of constellation and tendency is only incidental, not causal.

I still don't really understand it. The main issue I see is that even if we were to believe that tendencies can be imparted solely by temporal-spatial location, it still seems to me that they should be imparted at the time of conception, not at birth. Birth just seems so arbitrary. Why would I have had different tendencies had I not been born premature? Either way, every chart I've seen her do has been pretty good and she actually has helped me to understand certain things about myself.

Here's the text for that info
 
  • #40
loseyourname said:
The main issue I see is that even if we were to believe that tendencies can be imparted solely by temporal-spatial location, it still seems to me that they should be imparted at the time of conception, not at birth. Birth just seems so arbitrary. Why would I have had different tendencies had I not been born premature? Either way, every chart I've seen her do has been pretty good and she actually has helped me to understand certain things about myself.

the actual birth is used because that is the moment a person is breathing on their own and thus separate from their mother...think about it: a fetus is completely reliant on their mother until the cord is cut and they begin breathing on their own...
 
  • #41
0TheSwerve0 said:
Here's the text for that info


ahh yes, I do enjoy Kevin Burk Swerve...I highly recommend his books to those who have a unbiased curiosity to astrology...
 
  • #42
I don't believe in astrology. If anyone must know why, it's a simple reason: my twin brother. We were born within minutes of each other so we should be pretty much the same, right? Well guess what, we're not: he's off in a warm state studying business and partying more then he should while I'm freezing next to a Great Lake studying physics with no inclination to go partying every Friday. Other then a striking similarity you normally don't get in fraternal twins and a similar upbringing we're not the same at all.
If that's not enough for you I knew two girls who were identical twins born a mere two minutes apart. One died suddenly a few years ago and the other has gone on with a very furfilling life. Now they would've had the same sign, birthdate, cusp, and anything else you can think up but their lives played out in completely different ways. Just shows how little bearing it all really has on a person's life.
 
  • #43
One astrologer compared one's natal as the deck of cards you are dealt, it's up to you how you play. Other things still influence you: parents, individual experiences, genes, etc. Even if you had the exact same life, there is no guarantee that you would turn out the same. You are still different people, you just have the same influences working on you. Do you know if you have the same ascendant and house cusps? That could change within minutes, but it isn't likely if it was say 2 or 3 minutes.

Edit: http://www.twinstuff.com/astrology3.html
Also, by Kevin Burk
http://www.astro-horoscopes.com/HTML/AskKevin/990223b.html
http://www.astro-horoscopes.com/HTML/AskKevin/021006b.html
http://www.astro-horoscopes.com/HTML/AskKevin/961231.html
 
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  • #44
Saint, are you sure your time of birth was 6:15 am and not rounded off? Just want to be sure.
 
  • #45
Hey, your profile says you were born in '77. This isn't a ploy to mess up my predictions is it?
 
  • #46
Andromeda321 said:
I don't believe in astrology. If anyone must know why, it's a simple reason: my twin brother. We were born within minutes of each other so we should be pretty much the same, right? Well guess what, we're not: he's off in a warm state studying business and partying more then he should while I'm freezing next to a Great Lake studying physics with no inclination to go partying every Friday. Other then a striking similarity you normally don't get in fraternal twins and a similar upbringing we're not the same at all.
If that's not enough for you I knew two girls who were identical twins born a mere two minutes apart. One died suddenly a few years ago and the other has gone on with a very furfilling life. Now they would've had the same sign, birthdate, cusp, and anything else you can think up but their lives played out in completely different ways. Just shows how little bearing it all really has on a person's life.

astrology is not meant to predict your exact identity...this is the biggest misconception of it.

another misconception among hard core skeptics is they try to apply the scientific method to astrology, thus it is doomed to fail in their eyes.

ASTROLOGY IS NOT A SCIENCE AND IT DOES NOT CLAIM TO BE astrology is a guide or tool into understanding the human psyche in relation to the large bodies of celestial mass...it is a study of these cycles.
 
  • #47
Andromeda321 said:
If that's not enough for you I knew two girls who were identical twins born a mere two minutes apart. One died suddenly a few years ago and the other has gone on with a very furfilling life. Now they would've had the same sign, birthdate, cusp, and anything else you can think up but their lives played out in completely different ways. Just shows how little bearing it all really has on a person's life.

It's worth noting here that identical twins also share a common genome, yet they are fully capable of living different lives and even having a great deal of behavioral dissimilarities. Still, no one discounts that genetics plays a role in shaping the human person.

In response to Kerrie's justification of sun signs being imparted at birth rather than at conception, I can see what you mean about separating for the first time from the mother. Having a separate blood stream and a separate source of oxygen and all that just, by itself, doesn't seem enough. It sounds more symbolic than anything. So I suppose my question becomes: What is it symbolic of? Is there some kind of psychic connection between mother and fetus being postulated during the natal period that inhibits individual personality development? Is this then broken, allowing the child to develop an individual personality, only at birth?
 
  • #48
loseyourname said:
In response to Kerrie's justification of sun signs being imparted at birth rather than at conception, I can see what you mean about separating for the first time from the mother. Having a separate blood stream and a separate source of oxygen and all that just, by itself, doesn't seem enough. It sounds more symbolic than anything. So I suppose my question becomes: What is it symbolic of? Is there some kind of psychic connection between mother and fetus being postulated during the natal period that inhibits individual personality development? Is this then broken, allowing the child to develop an individual personality, only at birth?

astrology assumes that, once the child is breathing on their own without any sort of reliance upon their mother for life, the child then has "free will"...your words "allowing the child to develop an individual personality" is this free will being excercised...the time of birth shows (or natal chart) shows the strengths and weaknesses this individual may harbor during their life..
 
  • #49
Kerrie, you may remember that I posted a news story that cited new evidence that some diseases appear to be linked to one's date of birth. That link is dead but I found a couple of other references. I found this to be interesting and worth comparing to some astsrological claims. I also like to consider that with systems like Astrology, something might be true or partly true, but it is believed to be true for all of the wrong reasons. Anyway, FYI.

Birthday in March, April, May, or June? You have a higher risk for MS.
http://www.thisisms.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=48

Birthday link to coeliac condition
http://www.glutafin.co.uk/en/article.asp?chco_id=47
 
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  • #50
what is natal chart? where can i get it?
 

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