How can I turn this into formula?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the creation of a formula to represent a method of indicator levels in a sci-fi context. Participants explore how to mathematically express levels that increase multiplicatively, similar to the magnitude of earthquakes, and whether a formula can be derived to calculate these levels.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the nth level can be expressed as x_n = n!x_1, where n! denotes the factorial of n.
  • Another participant suggests that to generate values between levels, a condition such as log convexity is needed, referencing the gamma function.
  • A participant expresses confusion about applying the factorial formula to find levels that are multiples of previous levels, specifically questioning how to calculate a level that is three times larger than level 4.
  • It is noted that while the factorial is defined for integers, its generalization, the gamma function, is not invertible, complicating the process of finding exact levels corresponding to calculated units.
  • Some participants discuss the challenges of determining where a calculated unit (e.g., 72) stands between two levels, highlighting the complexity of the scaling involved.
  • One participant asserts that it is not impossible to find the level corresponding to a calculated unit, suggesting the use of a calculator or computer for lengthy calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of deriving a formula and the invertibility of the gamma function. While some believe it is possible to calculate levels, others emphasize the complications involved in reversing the calculations to find exact levels.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on integer inputs for factorials and the unresolved nature of how to accurately find levels corresponding to calculated units, given the changing scale of the formula.

Who May Find This Useful

Writers, mathematicians, and enthusiasts interested in mathematical modeling, particularly in speculative or fictional contexts, may find this discussion relevant.

Chitose
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First to tell, this is not my homework.

Okay, I am a writer who now try make sci-fi story, and now I need help.

I come up with method of indicator.

Basic level is 1
and level 2 are two times bigger than level 1
and level 3 are three times bigger than level 2
and level 4 are four times bigger than level 3
..and there go without limit...

.......

almost like magnitude of Earthquake right?

Can we some how turn this into formula for caculate?

like... If three times bigger than 2 is 3
than what is level that two times biggers than 2 ?

2.xxxx ?


.........

I know it's silly, but I just want to know that is there a way to create formula from this?

If it's can't, than it's okay
 
Last edited:
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Let [itex]x_1[/itex] be the basic "level 1" and let [itex]x_n[/itex] denote the "nth level." We then have that:

[tex]x_n = n!x_1[/tex]

Where [itex]n! = n(n-1)(n-2) \dots (2)(1)[/itex]
 
As jgens stated the function you want is the factorial. To generate between values (like the gamma function) you need another condition the standard one being that the function should be log convex.
antifactorial(4)~2.66403279720615568637843
 
Last edited:
Awesome! your guy's really something.

okay, let's try replace value in formula that you gave me. (to be hornest, I'm not quit understand yet with pure formula so I wonna try.)

If I want to know exactly amont of [tex]x_n[/tex] that three times bigger than level 4.

ummm... what it going to look like?

[tex]x_n[/tex] = 3!(4) ??

confuse... :(
 
Chitose said:
Awesome! your guy's really something.

okay, let's try replace value in formula that you gave me. (to be hornest, I'm not quit understand yet with pure formula so I wonna try.)

If I want to know exactly amont of [tex]x_n[/tex] that three times bigger than level 4.

ummm... what it going to look like?

[tex]x_n[/tex] = 3!(4) ??

confuse... :(

According to your description, level 4 refers to a power of 4! = 4*3*2*1 = 24 units, in whatever unit you are using to measure the phenomena. I'm just using power as an example.
So 3 times larger than level 4 has a power of 3*4! = 3*4*3*2*1 = 72 units.
If you are looking for the level that corresponds to 72, you are trying to solve the equation x! = 72. There is no well-defined way to do this, as the factorial is only defined for integer input, and its generalization, the gamma function, is not invertable. At best, you can note that 72 is between 4! and 5! and use a linear scale to approximate x as about [itex]4 + \frac{13}{16}[/itex].
If you meant you want the power measurement of the level that is 3 times the level of level 4, you have (4 + 3)! = 7! units.
 
Last edited:
slider142 said:
its generalization, the gamma function, is not invertable.

It's increasing on [1.462, infinity), so it's invertable where we care about.

Code:
invgamma(x)={
  my(lx);
  if(x<1,error("x too small"));
  lx=log(x);
  solve(t=1,1e6,lngamma(t)-lx)
}

Code:
gp >invgamma(72)
%1 = 5.695574197346865243871035726
 
Ah crap! I ask something impossible than!?
Sorry,

.....

So put it simple, we can calculate amount of unit but it's too complicate to reverse back to find extct 'x' level. Like we know that 3 time of level 4 is 72 units but we can't find about where that '72 units' stand between level 4 and level 5, right?

Since every 'x' level are always 'x' times bigger than previous level, formula scale are always change.
 
slider142 said:
There is no well-defined way to do this, as the factorial is only defined for integer input, and its generalization, the gamma function, is not invertable.

Nonsense. Do you know what invertable means?
 
Chitose said:
Ah crap! I ask something impossible than!?
Sorry,

.....

So put it simple, we can calculate amount of unit but it's too complicate to reverse back to find extct 'x' level. Like we know that 3 time of level 4 is 72 units but we can't find about where that '72 units' stand between level 4 and level 5, right?

Since every 'x' level are always 'x' times bigger than previous level, formula scale are always change.

It is not impossible at all. I would recommend a calculator or computer though as it is a lengthly calculation by hand.
We have
x!=4!*3=24*3=72
x=antifactorial(72)~4.6955741973468652438710357255

If you do not have a calculator or computer program handy you can go to http://www.wolframalpha.com/ and enter
x! == 72
 
  • #10
wow, ploblem slove. now I can explain how to compute this indicator in my story.

Thank you, your people are big help.
 

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