How can we improve our chances of getting into prestigious programs?

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In many Physics and Mathematics courses, students often score around the mean, with only a few achieving high marks, which may be due to prior exposure or effective study techniques. The discussion highlights that top students may not always have seen the material before but are adept at quickly grasping concepts. For those struggling, getting involved in research can enhance graduate school applications, as research aptitude is valued alongside academic performance. Professors are not obligated to accept undergraduates into research roles, so students should seek opportunities early and network with faculty. Ultimately, improving grades and understanding foundational knowledge is essential for academic success and pursuing prestigious programs.
  • #51
gretun said:
Guys, thank you for all your "studying advices" and all, but the thing is everyone knows them and everyone does it. We all study 24/7 like crazy, we all read ahead before lecture, we all do our homework when it is immediately assigned, we go to office hours when we need to, everyone in the class does it. We all even tried to understand the concepts, but for just some reasons, our instructor never ask questions like we have it in the textbook even though he tells the class that he will use questions similar to the book, but he instead will word it in a really confusing way to confuse you. Hence only one person in the class always gets that 98%+ while all of us ends up with a C+ to B-

EDIT: To just clarify, I don't mean I am complaining because he uses difficult questions, I am complaining because he uses questions that aren't in the book. Like he would ask you a question that's not covered in the book but it is the same topic. Let's say I am teaching a Pre-Calculus class and then the topic was exponential graphs and then suddenly I threw in a logistic problem at them (without the derivatives and differential stuff, just the equations).

I find it very hard to believe that even half the class does these things. I hear from classmates all the time about how hard they study and how they do all the right study methods, usually right before a test as they are cramming.
Take an honest assesment of your study habits; are you watching tv or in a distracting environment when studying; are you socializing while studying; are you working through practice problems; are you reading all the material before the class that covers it and then again after class; are you doing just the bare minimum of homework sets; are you looking up the answers to homework and copying them without fully understanding them; before a test are you reworking problems from homework sets that gave you problems and those you think you understand already; are you doing homework the same day its assigned; have you brought up the issues you have with your instructor during his office hours; have you spent much time in any free tutoring or help centers offered at your school; do you even know if there is free tutoring or help centers at your school; do you sit next to or near that one or two that are getting A's and asked them for help?

I had a math instructor last quarter that almost everyone in the class complained about. They all claimed to study like crazy and it was all his fault they weren't understanding the concepts. Oddly enough, the only time I ever saw any of them taking advantage of office hours and/or free help at our Math Learning Center (MLC) was the day before a test. When I did run across them in the MLC they tended to group together and spend most of their time chatting, trying to learn through osmosis or copying answers from someone else without learning to work through the problems themselves. Even more scary, a few of them had already taken the course twice before.

If neither the instructor, the book or my attempts at working through a problem seem to be giving me a clear understanding I find a few other people that already have the understanding to help me understand the problem. Most of the time there's just some small little issue that I'm missing that I will see in the different methods used by different people that clears the whole issue up for me.

Also, it may just be a case of not really having the fundamentals down from previous courses and you may need to seek remidial help in those areas concurrently with trying to learn the new material. Blame past easy teachers or take it as a learning experience to really learn the material the first time regardless of the grade you recieve.

With the high degree of stress on grades you seem to be putting yourself under it sounds like you may be sabotaging your success. Grades arn't everything. If you look at all those presigious institutes, not all of their students are 4.0. Other things come into play, like research. Like everything else after HS, things arn't going to be handed to you and you will have to work your butt off to get and succeed in research along with course work. You may want to talk to a school counselor about the stress, they are there to help and its foolish not to take advantage of all the programs available to you while in school.

EDT:
Keep in mind, if everyone is doing everything they can, and your all at the average except for a few outliers, why would you expect anything higher than a C? An A grade implies being well above the average, so it would stand to reason that not many would be achieving such a grade.
 
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  • #52
"What!? Being able to understand what things actually says is one of the most important skills to have for any human on the planet! And you can't say that someone got a firm grasp of the subject if they can't cope with different wordings than they are used to."

You might have misread my wording. I said the ability to spot strange tricks in tests is not that important, while understanding things properly is definitely valuable. I think with good understanding, one can spot tricky situations given time, but I was saying some qualities intrinsically tested by exams as opposed to other measures of understanding could be annoying, and not necessary to deal with.

"
To me it seems like the prof just asks them to apply what they have learned to solve problems they haven't seen before. If they had a firm grasp at what they did this wouldn't be much of a problem, but most don't so the scores get really bad like the OP complains about."

Yeah, if the instructor is encouraging them to understand things properly, he's doing a good thing. But this is not to be confused with making tricky test questions designed to trip people up - some people are good at avoiding these things, but doing so is not what I consider that valuable a skill. However, certainly being able to solve problems based on understanding is.
 
  • #53
gretun said:
Here is the thing that I noticed in most Physics and Mathematics courses, I noticed that no matter how poor our professor is, no matter how poorly written the textbook is, and no matter how everyone studies 24/7, somehow, for just some reason, everyone always scores the mean, in other words, no one even gets an A. While there is always this one or two people that always scores above the mean, like getting 97% to 99% on a midterm while everyone gets like 70%. Since there is that one person that scored so high, the professor cannot scale the exam.

I am just wondering, how do those people do it? People tell me it isn't because they are smart, it's because they've done it before, in other words they probably took Linear Algebra when they were in the 7th grade with a private instructor. Some people tell me it's because they are really good at role-learning while the rest of us tries to grasp the concepts that will never appear on the exam. Some people just tell me they know what will be on the exam.

So I am just wondering, what happens to the rest of us? The 99% mean scored people? What can we do to shoot for prestige programs?

Honestly, some people are just gifted. My husband is one of them.

My husband (though not myself, unfortunately :frown: ) was one of those people. In fact, during one of his engineering classes (he studied both engineering and physics as an undergrad), his professor sat down behind him during the midterms to make sure he wasn't cheating...that is, my husband's scores were always so much higher than everyone else's that the prof's [erroneous] assumption was that he had to be cheating somehow! Lo and behold! Hubby really was that smart.

Another anecdote (this one told to me by my husband's former professor/my former advisor): This prof (classical mechanics) was very impressed with my husband while teaching him (like, when everyone else was scoring 40-60% on the midterms, Hubby was still scoring high 90s) and decided to create a super hard final just to see if it were possible for my husband get to less than 90% on it. So, the prof refers to some graduate texts for inspiration for the final and creates THE hardest undergrad final he could come up with. Test day: husband got an 89% and no one else scored above 40%.

Minimal studying, but had zero trouble maintaining a 4.0. Some folks are just lucky like that.
 
  • #54
The OP should take a look at http://calnewport.com/blog/2010/04/01/i-got-a-c-on-my-orgo-exam-what-should-i-do/" , and in particular the study that it cites. In summary, students with 'growth' mindsets, meaning students who think that intelligence and ability can be developed and improved, scored higher grades in the general chemistry course they were in and were more likely to 'recover from a bad midterm grade' than students with a 'fixed mindset.
 
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