Stargazing How Can You Improve Your Amateur Solar Imaging Techniques?

[sophiecentaur]

They are actually a very respectable Ha solar scope

I suppose that the visual images will be not very stunning through any useful narrow band filter. Monochrome or false colour with the right exposure can do wonders - as it does for nebulae.

 

[davenn]

What I was looking at was on the edge ('limb"?) and was perhaps a few percent of the diameter of the disc. Whether that was what my companions were referring to is anyone's guess; they may have spotted flares too. But I thought the prominences (?) did change in size.

Yup, definitely prominences, not flares. Ohhh yeah I have often detected changes even in 15 - 30 mins of observing ... it's pretty amazing seeing the sun do stuff in real time.

I was surprised at the apparent speed if you translate it to many thousands of km/hr.

Coronal mass ejections CME's can vary from ~ 20 km/sec to ~ 3000 km/sec

I mean, when you think of the time that stuff ejected by the Sun takes to get here then it doesn't seem to scale with the apparent distances / heights of the features I was seeing. I have obviously got something wrong in my intuition about this.

CME's take on avg 2-3 days to get here (150 million km). those prominences in that last photo I posted will be between 50 and 150 km in height above the sun

 

[davenn]

I suppose that the visual images will be not very stunning through any useful narrow band filter. Monochrome or false colour with the right exposure can do wonders - as it does for nebulae.

most solar scopes produce a reddish colour for the sun, after all we are viewing down in the red end of the spectrum ... 656.28 nm

Remember a He/Ne laser is 633 nmD

 

[Stavros Kiri]

depending on where on the sun it was :)

True! ...

... bright areas on the face of the sun near the active region ...
... flares

or

... the features on the limb of the sun like you see in my above fotos ...
... prominences ...

 

[Stavros Kiri]

Yup, definitely prominences, not flares.

I agree. I too doubt it was the possible flare candidate B7.2 that started at 11:45 and ended at 11:51 (UTC) ...
[AR 2740 was right on the limb on May 3, not May 5 ... (though close around those days) (https://www.spaceweatherlive.com/en/solar-activity/region/12740)]

 

[sophiecentaur]

most solar scopes produce a reddish colour for the sun, after all we are viewing down in the red end of the spectrum ... 656.28 nm

Obvious when you think about it.
But that's what you get from all that false colour in images - example: the 'photos' of that black hole we all saw in the papers and on TV.

 

[neilparker62]

Don't know anything about the technicalities of solar photography but though this would be a good place to ask following question:

Is it possible to create an "artificial eclipse" ? That is to arrange an blocking disk exactly like the moon in a total eclipse so that one can examine the solar chromosphere. And obtain emission spectra such as the following:

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap170907.html

 

[russ_watters]

Is it possible to create an "artificial eclipse" ? That is to arrange an blocking disk exactly like the moon in a total eclipse so that one can examine the solar chromosphere.

Yes, that is a technique that is used. Not sure if by amateurs.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Don't know anything about the technicalities of solar photography but though this would be a good place to ask following question:

Is it possible to create an "artificial eclipse" ? That is to arrange an blocking disk exactly like the moon in a total eclipse so that one can examine the solar chromosphere. And obtain emission spectra such as the following:

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap170907.html

I found this esa link which shows a big boys' solution to the problem.
Coronagraphs have been used for a long time on Earth with varying success.
You made me wonder about the possibility of achieving something (much inferior DIY) for an amateur setup. The problem is that most astrophotography uses Prime Focus imaging, which uses just the telescope objective lens (just like a normal camera lens) and any occulting ( blocking) disc would actually need to be very close to the plane of the image sensor if you want to produce a good sharp shadow. Also, the disc would need to be exactly the right size as there is no 'zoom' facility on an astronomical telescope. It would be hard to achieve with a DSLR camera (a favourite low cost solution) although 'clip filters' do exist for Canon cameras which sit very close to the image sensor.

 

[neilparker62]

I found this esa link which shows a big boys' solution to the problem.
Coronagraphs have been used for a long time on Earth with varying success.
You made me wonder about the possibility of achieving something (much inferior DIY) for an amateur setup. The problem is that most astrophotography uses Prime Focus imaging, which uses just the telescope objective lens (just like a normal camera lens) and any occulting ( blocking) disc would actually need to be very close to the plane of the image sensor if you want to produce a good sharp shadow. Also, the disc would need to be exactly the right size as there is no 'zoom' facility on an astronomical telescope. It would be hard to achieve with a DSLR camera (a favourite low cost solution) although 'clip filters' do exist for Canon cameras which sit very close to the image sensor.

Many thanks - very cool video on the "big boys' solution". Indeed so! Should yield an excellent very high resolution version of (for eg) the following (can't find anything similar from more recent eclipses):

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1930ApJ...71...1M/0000001.000.html
Would be brilliant if someone could come up with the DIY / amateur solution you mention above. However in terms of resolution I would guess the 150m gap - and precision alignment - in the "big boys'" answer is necessary and not very amenable to DIY solutions.

 

[sophiecentaur]

not very amenable to DIY solutions.

Yes, For a start, the Sun would move across the horizon very fast if a large, distant occluding disc were used and that would need tracking. I used to have a photograph of my son, standing on a wall with a beachball held overhead and producing a pretty good eclipse. I had to do a lot of "forward backward side to side" to make it work. Then I lost the print! baah.

An internal occluding disc would not have the same problems but some fancy optics would be needed to place the Sun image (exactly the right size, of course) at an intermediate focus and then another lens, to project (in focus) both the Sun and the Disc onto the image sensor. Not too hard if you have a selection of appropriate lenses and extension tubes.

Either way, the contrast and the clubby atmosphere are a big problem. You can go down the road and buy a very narrow band filter (a couple of nm bandwidth) if you have at least 1kGBP. You can actually see prominences forming and changing, so they say.

 

[davenn]

First solar image for many, many months ( at least 8), between crap weather, skies full of bushfire smoke and the general
lack is significant solar activity.

LUNT LS60THa solar scope, ZWO ASI 1600MM camera

 

[sophiecentaur]

I think I saw that whilst trying to tame a PST.

 

[neilparker62]

Cool pic - that 'little' flare will of course dwarf the worst any bushfire can throw at you!

 

[sophiecentaur]

Cool pic - that 'little' flare will of course dwarf the worst any bushfire can throw at you!

Yes, but it is at a comforting arm's length away. comical
Our subjective appreciation of astronomical stuff is very non-linear. 'Small' solar surface features are as impressive as the whole beast in many ways. The Earth would be lost in that small bubble.

 

[davenn]

Cool pic - that 'little' flare will of course dwarf the worst any bushfire can throw at you!

Yes, a very nice prominence

 

[sophiecentaur]

There were some clear blue patches between the clouds this morning and I got this image with my DSLR on the PST, using a X2 barlow. The Prominence and some hairy bits around it seem fairly clear but I get no texture detail, whatever curve and level settings I use in the processing. Nonetheless, I now have 'features' that I wouldn't see with my shiny Baader filter. I'm on the way.

 

[davenn]

The Prominence and some hairy bits around it seem fairly clear but I get no texture detail, whatever curve and level settings I use in the processing.

outstanding ! well done I was hoping you had a chance to capture that.
Saw in the solar site that I download daily images from

You will discover, like the rest of us already have, that it's almost impossible to keep the surface features
correctly exposed but still be able to image the prominences at the same time.
The prominences are so faint compared to the disk that you have to overexpose the disk to see the prom's
You can experiment with exposing for the disk and save that image with surface features. Then expose for
the prom's and save that image and then merge the 2 images in photoshop ( or your other fav image app)cheers
Dave

 

[davenn]

and I got this image with my DSLR on the PST,

there's another good prom. visible at the moment, you may want to try and photo it :)

 

[sophiecentaur]

Thanks for the heads up.
It's a nice sunny day here but there is a layer of whispy cloud. Plus, I don't have a long time-slot in my busy day as a 'retired' person. Where did all the spare time go that I used to have when at work?

 

[Tom.G]

Where did all the spare time go that I used to have when at work?

Replaced with "Don't Die of Boredom" 'work'.

 

[davenn]

Thanks for the heads up.

Another large prominence on the limb hopefully you have a clear day to see it Dave

 

[davenn]

Thanks for the heads up.

if you can get outside today ... 3 good prom's on limb and a new active region has rotated into view

 

[sophiecentaur]

@davenn busy all day despite loads of Sun! I'm really waiting until some spots turn up as I have seen nothing on the face. Keep nagging me though. You are my Jimminy Cricket!

 

[davenn]

'm really waiting until some spots turn up

There is a spot or 2 assoc with this active reg

it's been ohhh so quiet, I haven't even used my solar scope in ~ 8 months
ya takes what you can get

 

[Stavros Kiri]

if you can get outside today ... 3 good prom's on limb and a new active region has rotated into view

"outside" ... hmm! That reminds me of something! ... Lol (Turns out we have a novel Corona here on Earth now! ...)
But hopefully terrace would be fine ... for now

 

[davenn]

25/11/2020
A new and large sunspot has come around the east limb of the sun. This is the return of the large active region of a couple of weeks ago
Canon 6D, fl400mm, 400th sec, f11, ISO100, white light mylar filter

cheers
Dave

 

[sophiecentaur]

@davenn Some other very visible apparent features visible in that region. Good picture. Have you tried enhancing with a movie sequence?

 

[davenn]

@davenn Some other very visible apparent features visible in that region. Good picture. Have you tried enhancing with a movie sequence?

Yes there are

I have messed around with Registax and something else... I just can't seem to make it work like others can
frustrates the hell out of me haha

I need some one to sit down with me and do a step by step work flow

Yeah, I have tried following videos and I just can't get it to do what they show in the videoDave

 

[Stavros Kiri]

LITTLE GREEN CANNONBALLS OF LIGHT: Researchers and citizen scientists have just discovered a new phenomenon: ... ...
https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...ace-weather-update-thread.923468/post-6422178

 

[sophiecentaur]

I have messed around with Registax and something else

I have also tinkered with Registax and it can dig out patterns from even the messiest movies. The problem is in the user interface (this user, at least) . This is a problem with virtually all software that's written by enthusiasts. The software writer knows what they mean and it works fine for them. Users have to get inside the heads of all the designers of the different software they use. Tiresome.

I am a long time Apple User and pretty much all Apple-originated software presents the same interface style. When you open a new application, you just 'know' where to look for most things (that little menu bar). So many of these guys think they can do better by presenting things 'their way' but they seldom do. Anti Applers will jump on that but thirty years of using Apples tells me I am right about this.

 

[Stavros Kiri]

Interesting Sun today! [Sunday, 29 Nov., 2020] (and Surprise Major Flare Blast! ...)
https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...ace-weather-update-thread.923468/post-6423275

 

[sophiecentaur]

Interesting Sun today! [Sunday, 29 Nov., 2020] (and Surprise Major Flare Blast! ...)
https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...ace-weather-update-thread.923468/post-6423275

Needless to day, a lovely cloudy day. Hahahahahaha

 

[Stavros Kiri]

Needless to day, a lovely cloudy day. Hahahahahaha

Hahaha, same here, + some rain a few minutes ago ... - BUT the Sun is always there! ... (&Thanks to all types of observatories and techniques etc. ... - + it's a big planet (Earth, I mean [with variety of climate! ...]) ... hahaha)

 

[Stavros Kiri]

BUT the Sun is always there!

& No matter whether it's day or night! ... Lol

 

[sophiecentaur]

BUT the Sun is always there! ... (&Thanks to all types of observatories and techniques etc. ..

This is true but, by that argument, there would be no point in amateur astronomy at all in an era when we can all see the highest quality images of virtually anything that's out there. The big snag about just looking at what's dished up by the media is that people get a very limited grasp of what the images actually mean (they seem to think they have actually SEEN a black hole, for instance).

Seeing a low quality image of a sunspot from my garden gives me a lift. I resent the presence of cloud and a winter Sun that doesn't go above 40° in the sky for weeks on end. Seeing high quality solar images on-line tends to make me less satisfied and even crosser. I live in hope.

 

[Stavros Kiri]

This is true but, by that argument, there would be no point in amateur astronomy at all in an era when we can all see the highest quality images of virtually anything that's out there. The big snag about just looking at what's dished up by the media is that people get a very limited grasp of what the images actually mean (they seem to think they have actually SEEN a black hole, for instance).

Seeing a low quality image of a sunspot from my garden gives me a lift. I resent the presence of cloud and a winter Sun that doesn't go above 40° in the sky for weeks on end. Seeing high quality solar images on-line tends to make me less satisfied and even crosser. I live in hope.

Very nice point, and I mostly agree. The purpose of my added (yesterday) joke was not to support further the on-line or internet views, pictures, photos and archives [and dismiss amateur observations etc. (not at all!)] but merely to see realistically the options/all available options, via creating a pictorial and humorous "contradiction" about the Sun ... (Sun, day, night! ... - besides climate [temporary and local] and locations ... - somewhere in the planet, somebody ever has got to be able to see the sun, even just a bit, at some point, etc., usually, except for exeptional days in global Earth planet climate perhaps (I've seen such days (whole planet cloudy - rare) e.g. though ISS app Earth viewing, a couple of winters ago [Jan. '18, for instsance, I think] - in such cases only hope is other types of observations and viewing (e.g. via internet etc.) ... etc.) - you get the point an idea ...).

Of course you're right about the weather and our feelings now - same weather (all clouds, winter and rain here too, several days now and continuing etc. - I don't know, perhpas the southern hemisphere, e.g. Dave- Autralia might surprise us, you never know, one of these days again!? ...)
I feel kind of like the same way. [Though not good in photographing 'n stuff,] I'm also too an amateur astronomy observer and fan! ...

 

[PhysicoRaj]

08/09/2021
Many spots now. I'm sorry I have no idea of the orientation of the sun in this image. I waited days for the clouds and then went clicking and filming two whole days like a mad guy until it worked.
Canon 200D MkII (or 'SL3'), fl = 700mm, f/18, Mylar filter.
Stacked image from a 300 frame movie (in AS!3). Levels and curves adjusted in post-processing.
There is a thread going on about challenges in my solar imaging, your opinions are welcome.

Edit: changed f# realizing that the filter is stopping my native aperture.

 

[davenn]

Many spots now. I'm sorry I have no idea of the orientation of the sun in this image.

90 deg clockwise

yes, the biggest groups for the new cycle

 

[PhysicoRaj]

90 deg clockwise

yes, the biggest groups for the new cycle

Thanks. I am lucky to have started at the right time. Do you have any comments on the image quality and details? I observed that you are on 400mm (which is 60% of mine), f11 and its a single exposure compared to a stacked and aligned of mine yet I only come close to as much surface details as you have (around the spots). I think a higher fl and f# should resolve more details on the sensor at prime focus?

 

[davenn]

30 Jan 2022 from home
Canon 6D, 1000 Oaks Solar Filter, 400mm telephoto with 2 x converter (800mm)
The large region is AR2396 the small single spot lower right is AR2934

 

[davenn]

10 Feb. 2022 from home
Canon 6D MKII ( new Camera prev. post was the older 6D), 1000 Oaks Solar Filter,
400mm telephoto with 2 x converter (800mm)

Image hasnt been rotated ...

 

[davenn]

Sunspots for 02 April 2022
2 major groups which include 4 active regions
left centre - AR's 2978 and 2981
right edge - AR's 2975 and 2975
Canon 6D Ii 400mm telephoto + 2 x converter
White light solar filter

 

[davenn]

This large Sunspot group 24 Apr. 2022 continues to progress across the solar disk
This group comprises of several different active regions
The flares have eased off over the last 24 hours
Canon 6D II, 100 - 400mm @400mm + 2 x converter, 800mm total
and a Thousand Oaks white light filter

 

[davenn]

This large Sunspot, 07 May 2022 continues to progress across the solar disk. Another couple of days and it will slip around the limb
Spot motion is, from our view, left to right. East to West.
The flares have been regular from this region over the last 5 days.
There is another small group in the lower left
Canon 6D II, 100 - 400mm @400mm + 2 x converter, 800mm total and a Thousand Oaks white light filter

 

[davenn]

A catch up of some latest solar activity
All images with a Canon 6D, 800mm ( 400 + 2x teleconverter)
and a Thousand Oaks white light filter

The spot group to the right on the disc has been producing a few large M class flares
over the 1st and 2nd of Oct. - M5.8 and M8.3 and the largest one, today, at X1.0

25 Sept. 2022

30 Sept. 2022

1 Oct. 2022

cheers
Dave

 

[davenn]

3rd Oct. 2022

All images with a Canon 6D, 800mm (400 + 2x teleconverter)
and a Thousand Oaks white light filter

I don't do too much image editing, mostly some sharpening. I find that imaging through a camera
lens and teleconverter doesn't produce the sharpest of images. there is just so much glass in the
optical path.
If these were images through my telescope with no lenses in the optical path, there would be such
a huge difference.

I should have commented on earlier posts. I have always orientated the images to show the correct
orientation as displayed by professional sites ... NASA etc.
In that light, east is on the left side of the disk and north is to the top. The spots are rotating from east (left) to right.

Comparing this new image to the last one in the previous set of 3 images post. You can see a new
large region rotating into view around the east limb of the Sun. It was only just becoming visible
for the image on the 1st Oct. . It will be interesting to see if it starts unleashing flares in our direction.

Cheers
Dave

 

[davenn]

A catch up of some latest solar activity
All images with a Canon 6D II, 800mm ( 400 + 2x teleconverter)
and a Thousand Oaks white light filter

The sun it's spots for 9th, 10th and 12th Nov 2022

9th

10th

12th

 

[davenn]

A catch up of some latest solar activity
All images with a Canon 6D, 800mm (400 + 2x teleconverter)
and a Thousand Oaks white light filter

As usual, images have been correctly reorientated East is on left, North to the top
(Sunspots appear on the East limb and traverse the solar disk to the right)
The motion of the spot groups can be easily followed across the disk

20 Dec 2022

21 Dec. 2022

23 Dec 2022

24 Dec 2022

1 Jan. 2023

cheers,
Dave

 

[davenn]

Major health hassles put me out of commission for over a week.
Only now finally getting a chance to post some of my latest solar images.

8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15 Jan

As usual, all images with a Canon 6D, 800mm (400 + 2x teleconverter)
and a Thousand Oaks white light filter
Images have been correctly reorientated East is on left, North to the top
(Sunspots appear on the East limb (left side) and traverse the solar disk to the right)
The motion of the spot groups can be easily followed across the disk