How do Electrons perform work in circuits?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of how electrons perform work in circuits, particularly whether their mass or kinetic energy contributes to this work. Participants explore analogies, mathematical formulations, and the role of electric fields in the context of circuit behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether electrons perform work through their mass or kinetic energy, drawing analogies to water flowing through a turbine.
  • Others assert that the kinetic energy of electrons can be described by the equation K = 1/2 mv^2, but emphasize the need for quantum mechanics for a deeper understanding.
  • There is a discussion about the meaning of the "/2" in the kinetic energy equation, with some suggesting it arises from calculus and integration.
  • One participant proposes that the electric field is more relevant than the mass of electrons in performing work in circuits.
  • Another participant argues that mass does not factor into the work done, emphasizing that work is the product of force and distance.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the role of electron mass in circuits, with one suggesting that voltage could be seen as a measure of potential speed of electrons.
  • There are claims that electrons in circuits move very slowly, with questions about how this has been measured and whether conduction band electrons move at different speeds.
  • Participants discuss the relationship between Ohm's law and Newton's second law, considering voltage as a force and current as a quantity of electrons over time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the mass of electrons is a significant source of energy in circuits. Multiple competing views are presented regarding the contributions of kinetic energy, electric fields, and the relevance of mass.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the behavior of electrons in circuits is complex, involving interactions that may not be fully captured by classical mechanics. There are references to quantum mechanics and the limitations of classical equations in describing electron behavior in circuits.

  • #31
About the integral explanation of the 1/2 in the expression for kinetic energy, I understand the integration, but why does integrating mass x velocity with respect to velocity give kinetic energy?

I had always explained the half by saying that to stop an object mass m traveling at a velocity u, you apply a force which gives the object an acceleration of -F/m. Then I use v2 = u2 + 2as to work out the distance (s) this object travels before it stops. So 0 = u2 - 2Fs/m, and so Fs = mu2/2. Fs expresses the work done to stop the object, and so from conservation of energy the object's initial KE must have beeen mu2/2.
 
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  • #32
When one object(a) is pushing on another object(b) (accelerating it). Isn't 1/2 of the force pushing object (a) from (b), and the other 1/2 (of the total force in system) pushing (b) from (a)? This is how I see it. Similar to centrifugal and centripetal force.
 
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  • #33
marmoset said:
About the integral explanation of the 1/2 in the expression for kinetic energy, I understand the integration, but why does integrating mass x velocity with respect to velocity give kinetic energy?

I had always explained the half by saying that to stop an object mass m traveling at a velocity u, you apply a force which gives the object an acceleration of -F/m. Then I use v2 = u2 + 2as to work out the distance (s) this object travels before it stops. So 0 = u2 - 2Fs/m, and so Fs = mu2/2. Fs expresses the work done to stop the object, and so from conservation of energy the object's initial KE must have beeen mu2/2.


F \cdot dx = F \cdot vdt=\frac{d(mv)}{dt}vdt=v\cdot d(mv)=mv\cdot dv

KE=\int F\cdot dx = \int mv\cdot dv = \frac{1}{2}mv^2 + C

KE(0) = 0

\frac{1}{2} m0^2 + C = 0

C = 0

KE = \frac{1}{2}mv^2
 
Last edited:

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