How do Maxwells equations result from the field tensor?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving Maxwell's equations from the field tensor in the context of quantum field theory, specifically referencing a problem from Peskin and Schroeder's textbook. Participants explore the relationship between the field tensor and Maxwell's equations, focusing on the mathematical formulation and the implications of various terms.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their progress in deriving Maxwell's equations using the Euler-Lagrange equation and the definition of the field tensor, reaching the equation 0 = d_μ F^{μv} but struggling to connect this to Maxwell's equations.
  • Another participant asks about the usual variables in which Maxwell's equations are expressed, suggesting a focus on the vector form of the electric field (E) and magnetic field (B) or the four-vector potential (A).
  • A participant provides the expressions for E and B in terms of the scalar electric potential (φ) and the magnetic vector potential (A), noting that two of Maxwell's equations can be derived directly from these definitions.
  • Further elaboration is provided on how the equations are manipulated, leading to the conclusion that two equations remain to be derived from the expression 0 = ∂_μ F^{μv}.
  • Another participant suggests that it may be more sensible to work directly with E's and B's to derive the equations that yield these fields.
  • A participant points out a potential error in mixing vector and scalar quantities in the mathematical expressions presented, indicating a need for careful treatment of indices and terms.
  • A later reply acknowledges the mistake in the previous calculations and expresses gratitude for the assistance received from other participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the best approach to derive Maxwell's equations, with some advocating for a focus on E and B fields while others attempt to work through the field tensor formulation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the most effective method for deriving the equations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential issues with the mixing of vector and scalar quantities and the treatment of indices in their mathematical expressions, indicating that these aspects require careful consideration in the derivation process.

Azelketh
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Hi,
I've been trying to solve problem 2.1 a in Peskin and schroeder, an introduction to QFT.
The problem is to derive Maxwells equations for free space, which I have almost managed to do,
using the Euler- lagrange euqation And the definition of the field tensor as
<br /> F_{μv} = d_μ A_v - d_v A_μ<br />
So I have managed to get to;
<br /> 0=d_μ F^{μv}<br />
But I am unable to see how this shows Maxwells equations.
Any points would be appreciated.
Thanks.
 
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In what variables are Maxwell's equations usually expressed?
 
My apologies for a less than comprehensive post at first;

Well, usually in the vector form of E and B or the 4 vector A,
where;
<br /> A= ( \phi, \vec{A} )<br />

where\vec{A}is the magnetic vector
\phi is the scalar electric potential.

<br /> E = -∇\phi - \frac{\partial\vec{A}}{\partial t}<br />
And,
<br /> B= ∇ X \vec{A}<br />
It's clear to me that 2 of maxwells equations result directly from this definition;
<br /> ∇.B = ∇. ( ∇ X \vec{A} ) = 0<br />
and
<br /> ∇ X E = ∇ X ∇\phi - ∇ X \frac{\partial\vec{A}}{\partial t}<br /><br /> ∇ X E = ∇(∇ X \phi) - \frac{\partial (∇ X\vec{A} )}{\partial t}<br /><br /> ∇ X E = 0 - \frac{\partial ( B )}{\partial t}<br /><br /> ∇ X E = - \frac{\partial B}{\partial t}<br /> <br />

Which leaves
<br /> ∇.E = 0<br />
and
<br /> ∇ X B = \frac{\partial E}{\partial t}<br />
to be found from
<br /> 0=\partial_μ F^{μv}

So I have tried putting in
<br /> F_{μv} = \partial_μ A_v - \partial_v A_μ<br />
To give;
<br /> 0=\partial_μ ( \partial_μ A_v - \partial_v A_μ )

<br /> 0=\partial_μ \partial_μ A_v - \partial_μ \partial_v A_μ
so I then tried expanding this out, hoping that some terms would cancel and that I would recognize others and perhaps then they would be close to the E and B field formulation that I am more familier with.
This yielded;
<br /> \partial_μ \partial_μ A_v= \frac{\partial^2 \phi}{\partial t^2} + \frac{\partial^2 \vec(A)}{\partial t^2} + ∇^2 \phi + ∇^2 \vec{A}<br />
And
<br /> \partial_μ \partial_v A_μ = \partial_v \partial_μ A_μ = \frac{\partial^2 \phi}{\partial t^2} - \frac{\partial \vec(∇A)}{\partial t} - \frac{\partial ∇\phi}{\partial t} + ∇^2 \vec{A}<br />
which when combined gives;
<br /> 0= \frac{\partial^2 \phi}{\partial t^2} + \frac{\partial^2 \vec(A)}{\partial t^2} + ∇^2 \phi + ∇^2 \vec{A} - ( \frac{\partial^2 \phi}{\partial t^2} - \frac{\partial \vec(∇A)}{\partial t} - \frac{\partial ∇\phi}{\partial t} + ∇^2 \vec{A} )<br />
<br /> 0= \frac{\partial^2 \vec(A)}{\partial t^2} + ∇^2 \phi + \frac{\partial \vec(∇A)}{\partial t} + \frac{\partial ∇\phi}{\partial t}<br />
which is where I am scratching my head...

EDIT:replaced d's with \partial as per dextercioby's suggestion.
 
Last edited:
I suggest one tiny bit of LaTex: \partial, i.e. \partial.
 
Wouldn't it make more sense to work with E's and B's if you want equations giving you E's and B's?
 
at the end of post #3, like in the last 4 lines, you have vector things added to scalar things, which is no good. And on the left hand side of those lines there is a free index \nu I think... Those are vectors. You can write it in a vector format, but the index is not summed over.
 
I see how I've gone wrong on the last few lines.

Thanks for your help vanadium 50 , jfy4 and dextercioby!
 

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