How Does Levi-Civita Symmetry Relate to Tensor Permutations?

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The discussion revolves around the relationship between the Levi-Civita symbol and tensor permutations, particularly in the context of determinants and their properties. Participants are exploring how the symmetry of the Levi-Civita symbol can be applied to tensor expressions.

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  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the definitions and properties of the Levi-Civita symbol and determinants. There are attempts to express the Levi-Civita symbol in terms of permutations of indices and to relate this to the structure of determinants. Some participants question the interpretation of specific expressions and the implications of index permutations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the properties of the Levi-Civita symbol and its connection to tensor permutations. Some guidance has been offered regarding the need to reference definitions and properties, and there is an exploration of how these concepts interrelate. Multiple interpretations are being examined, particularly concerning the symmetry of the expressions involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants are reminded of the forum's rules regarding showing effort before receiving assistance. There is an emphasis on understanding the foundational definitions to progress in the discussion.

Jyoti6297
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Moved from another forum, no effort, no template.
I know what Levi Civita is, but I don't know how to go about such questions.
Question : (1.3)
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Welcome to PF.

I moved your post. It does not belong in New Member Introductions.

Our rules say that you must show your effort before our homework helpers are allowed to help. So please "I don't know how" is not enough. Make a try and show us your work.
 
For a question like that you need the definition and/or properties of the Levi Civita symbol and the definition and/or properties of the determinant.

Without those you can make no progress.
 
I agree about the need to go back to the definition. Some useful things to remember is that

1. Levi-Civita indices must be all different for it to be non-zero.
2. When it us non-zero it can only be one or minus one.
3. Every time you swap two indices around you pick up a minus

Next, you need to go to the definition of the determinant. Wikipedia has some good information on this including the connection to Levi-Civitas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinant.

Start with a simpler task and try writing the sum out:

##\epsilon_{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa} A^\alpha_1 A^\beta_2 A^\gamma_3 A^\kappa_4 = ?##

Take, for example the first term as ##\{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa\}=\{1234\}## all other terms will be permutations of this sequence. You can deal with these permutations by choosing what you keep fixed:

-> Fix ##\alpha=1## permute ##\beta\gamma\kappa\}=\{234\}##:
___-> Fix ##\beta=2## permute ##\{\gamma\kappa\}=\{34\}##:
______-> ##\{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa\}=\{1234\}, -\{1243\}##
__________Note that the second term has a minus because I needed a single exchange of indices compared to 1234
go up few levels
___-> Fix ##\beta=3## permute ##\{\gamma\kappa\}=\{24\}##:
______-> ##\{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa\}=-\{1324\}, (-)^2\{1342\}##
go up
___-> Fix ##\beta=4## permute ##\{\gamma\kappa\}=\{23\}##:
______-> ##\{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa\}=\{1423\}, -\{1432\}##

Based on this you already have:

##\epsilon_{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa} A^\alpha_1 A^\beta_2 A^\gamma_3 A^\kappa_4 = A^1_1 \left(A^2_2 \left(A^3_3 A^4_4 - A^4_3 A^3_4 \right) + A^3_2 \left(-A^2_3 A^4_4 + A^4_3 A^2_4 \right) + A^4_2 \left(A^2_3 A^3_4 - A^3_3 A^2_4 \right) \right) \dots##

You should start seeing the hierarchical structure of the determinant appearing in this permutations (the inner brackets are 2-by-2 determinants, above them is 3-by-3 etc). If you are happy with this (i.e. you can extend the arguments to proof of ##\epsilon_{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa} A^\alpha_1 A^\beta_2 A^\gamma_3 A^\kappa_4=\det\left(A\right)##), we can move to your original question
 
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Provided you are happy with the determinant part the rest is simple. Consider the permutation symmetry of

##\epsilon_{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa}A^\alpha_\mu A^\beta_\nu A^\gamma_\eta A^\kappa_\sigma##

I can permute indices ##\{\mu\nu\eta\sigma\}## and offset this by permuting the ##{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa}##, e.g.

##()_{\mu\sigma\eta\nu}=\epsilon_{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa}A^\alpha_\mu A^\beta_\sigma A^\gamma_\eta A^\kappa_\nu = \epsilon_{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa} A^\alpha_\mu A^\kappa_\nu A^\gamma_\eta A^\beta_\sigma= - \epsilon_{\alpha\kappa\gamma\beta} A^\alpha_\mu A^\kappa_\nu A^\gamma_\eta A^\beta_\sigma##

Now rename the dummy indices ##\beta\to\kappa \, and \, \kappa \to \beta##:##()_{\mu\sigma\eta\nu}= - \epsilon_{\alpha\kappa\gamma\beta} A^\alpha_\mu A^\kappa_\nu A^\gamma_\eta A^\beta_\sigma = - \epsilon_{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa} A^\alpha_\mu A^\beta_\nu A^\gamma_\eta A^\kappa_\sigma = -()_{\mu\nu\eta\sigma}##. So the permutation symmetry of the ##()## is the same as of the Levi-Civita, so we can write:

##()_{\mu\sigma\eta\nu}=\epsilon_{\mu\nu\eta\sigma} ()_{1234} = \epsilon_{\mu\nu\eta\sigma} \cdot \epsilon_{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa}A^\alpha_1 A^\beta_2 A^\gamma_3 A^\kappa_4 ##

And as you know from the pervious post, the second term is simply the determinant of ##A##
 
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I didn't get the last part.

So the permutation symmetry of the ##()## is the same as of the Levi-Civita, so we can
##()_{\mu\sigma\eta\nu}=\epsilon_{\mu\nu\eta\sigma} ()_{1234} = \epsilon_{\mu\nu\eta\sigma} \cdot \epsilon_{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa}A^\alpha_1 A^\beta_2 A^\gamma_3 A^\kappa_4 ##


Do you mean
##()_{\mu\nu\eta\sigma}## instead of ##()_{\mu\sigma\eta\nu}## here? Or am I interpreting something wrong?
 
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Jyoti6297 said:
I didn't get the last part.

So the permutation symmetry of the ##()## is the same as of the Levi-Civita, so we can
##()_{\mu\sigma\eta\nu}=\epsilon_{\mu\nu\eta\sigma} ()_{1234} = \epsilon_{\mu\nu\eta\sigma} \cdot \epsilon_{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa}A^\alpha_1 A^\beta_2 A^\gamma_3 A^\kappa_4 ##


Do you mean
##()_{\mu\nu\eta\sigma}## instead of ##()_{\mu\sigma\eta\nu}## here? Or am I interpreting something wrong?

What I meant is that ##()_{\mu\nu\eta\sigma}\equiv \epsilon_{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa}A^\alpha_\mu A^\beta_\nu A^\gamma_\eta A^\kappa_\sigma## has the same symmetry with respect to index permutation, as a co-variant Levi-Civita, so ##\epsilon_{\alpha\beta\gamma\kappa}A^\alpha_\mu A^\beta_\nu A^\gamma_\eta A^\kappa_\sigma = const\cdot \epsilon_{\mu\nu\eta\sigma}##, where ##const## happens to be the determinant
 
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