How does regenerative braking vary the load?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanics and electronics of regenerative braking systems, particularly in vehicles like e-bikes and scooters. Participants explore how regenerative braking varies the load on the motor and the circuitry involved in controlling braking force.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how vehicles vary the amount of regenerative braking and questions the circuitry involved in regulating braking force based on brake pedal angle.
  • Another participant suggests that the braking is controlled by regulating the motor-generated current flowing to the battery, implying a fixed battery voltage.
  • A follow-up question is raised about whether the regenerative braking circuit splits current between the motor and the battery, with a hypothesis that maximum braking force occurs when all current goes to the motor.
  • It is proposed that the control circuit applies voltage to the motor in a PWM fashion to manage braking force, with a description of how this might work in practice.
  • One participant notes the complexity of ensuring sufficient braking force without skidding, especially in lighter vehicles like bicycles, raising concerns about the limitations of regenerative braking systems.
  • Another participant clarifies that the motor acts as a generator during braking, emphasizing that the same device is used for both driving and braking.
  • There is a suggestion to look into four quadrant drive systems and power electronics for further understanding, with recommendations for specific resources.
  • A later reply discusses the behavior of AC motor drives and inverters in regenerative braking, highlighting the conditions under which the inverter acts as a brake or a boost mode rectifier.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and agreement on the mechanics of regenerative braking, with multiple competing views on how braking force is controlled and the implications for different vehicle types. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the optimal methods and challenges associated with regenerative braking systems.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention different scales of vehicles, such as locomotives and e-bikes, which may use different methods for regenerative braking. There is also an acknowledgment of the complexity and limitations of these systems, particularly in lighter vehicles.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in the technical aspects of regenerative braking systems, power electronics, and their applications in various types of vehicles.

noagname
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TL;DR
They all are able to regulate the braking force based on angle of the brake pedal but what is changing in the circuitry to enable that.
Lately, I've been reading about the electronics required for driving motors and naturally that transitioned into braking. I think I have a decent grasp on resistive braking but I do not fully grasp regenerative braking.

This plus googling gaps in my knowledge have been my primary sources.

Looking at the diagram in section 4, I can see how the battery would be recharged while the generator is outputting a voltage greater than the battery's voltage. The thing I do not understand is, how do vehicles vary the amount of regenerative braking? They all are able to regulate the braking force based on angle of the brake pedal but what is changing in the circuitry to enable that.
 
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noagname said:
The thing I do not understand is, how do vehicles vary the amount of regenerative braking?
The simple circuit shown requires more transistors to make it bi-directional.

The battery voltage is reasonably fixed so the braking is controlled by regulating the motor generated current flowing to the battery.
 
Ah ok, this makes more sense.

Follow up question, Does the regenerative braking circuit split that current between going back into the motor and into the battery? If so, is maximum braking force when all of the current goes back into the motor and minimum braking force when all of the current goes into the battery?
 
You can think of the motor braking as similar to acceleration. The amount is determined by the voltage applied. If "positive" voltage accelerates, then "negative" voltage will brake (for a given motor direction).

It is the control circuit's job to apply the correct voltage to the motor. This is usually done in a PWM fashion where 40% braking is applied as 100% braking for 40% of the time at a frequency that's high enough that the motor doesn't respond to the ripple.
 
Hi Dave,

Ok, I think I see what you are saying. By sending the voltage from the generator to the battery in a PWM style, we can effectively control the load on the motor. Where is the voltage going during the off periods? Back to the motor?

Also, if you have any books or guides, I'm more than happy to read them.
 
noagname said:
Does the regenerative braking circuit split that current between going back into the motor and into the battery?

The braking system is not separate. The motor becomes the generator during braking. Same device for driving and braking.

You need to clarify the scale you are thinking about. A locomotive and an electric bicycle don't necessarily use the same methods.
.
 
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To my understanding one serious problem with regenerative brakes is any good brake needs to be able skid the tires (or rather supply enough force to "not quite" do so). Conversely then the motor needs to be able to "burn rubber" when accelerating (even at speed)! This power is usually not available and I believe this fundamental problem increases significantly the added weight and complexity particularly on a bicycle for instance..
 
The braking system is not separate. The motor becomes the generator during braking. Same device for driving and braking.
Sorry, I worded that poorly. I do understand that the motor becomes the generator

In terms of scale, I'm thinking about E-bikes/scooters territory but I'm curious in general.

Really, I'm just looking for a guide about the circuitry for regenerative braking.
 
Try searching four quadrant drive, then adding some of the following: Siemens, Allen Bradley, power electronics. You might not find what you want online. In that case, look for a power electronics book.
 
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Ah, thank you this is exactly what I was looking for!
 
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  • #11
The - interesting, or challenging thing to think about - is in an AC motor drive, the inverter, always has the potential to act like a brake, because the Inverter inherently will act like a passive rectifier. So the case when the motor voltage (peak) is higher than the battery voltage then it will act like a brake.

Luckily this is essentially never the case - so what about when the Motor Voltage is less then the Battery(most common)

Then the inverter needs to be run as a boost mode rectifier(or active rectifier), where the inverter effectively shorts the motor to generate current, and then turns off - and current is dumped into the battery. The Controller / PWM cycle manages the current which is proportal to the torque.
 
  • #12
jrmichler said:
Try searching four quadrant drive, then adding some of the following: Siemens, Allen Bradley, power electronics. You might not find what you want online. In that case, look for a power electronics book.
Thanks for giving me the right search term! I went down the road of H bridges and then half bridges and then I found this excellent guide!
 

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