How to model light from a star?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around modeling the propagation of light emitted from stars, particularly in the context of how it can be treated as a parallel beam after traveling significant distances. Participants explore various mathematical models and assumptions related to light behavior in free space and its interaction with observers on Earth.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes modeling light from stars as a Gaussian beam, suggesting that it can be treated as parallel light at great distances, with the waist radius equal to the radius of the star.
  • Another participant challenges this view, stating that light emitted from a star is radial and questions the necessity of a model, as well as how the observer's aperture will be modeled.
  • A mathematical expression for average energy carried by electric and magnetic fields is introduced, but its interpretation raises questions about the relationship between the electric field and the radial vector.
  • There is a discussion about the appropriateness of using time averages for incoherent light and the nature of electromagnetic waves as transverse waves.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the definition of vectors in the context of light propagation from stars to Earth, noting that while light can be approximated as plane waves, it originates as spherical waves.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to model light from stars, with no consensus reached on the validity of treating it as a parallel beam or the implications of its radial nature. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various assumptions regarding the modeling of light, including the treatment of light in free space versus its interaction with the Earth's atmosphere, and the implications of using different mathematical frameworks.

Haorong Wu
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I am aware that a laser could be modeled as a Gaussian beam, e.g., $$E=E_0\frac{w_0}{w_z}\exp (\frac {-r^2}{w^2_z}) \exp (-i(kz+k \frac {r^2}{2R(z)}-\psi(z))).$$

Now I want to study the propagation of light emitted from stars. But I am not sure how to model it, especially by some kind of functions.

I am particularly interested in the situation where the light has traveled a great deal of distance. Since it then can be treated as parallel beam, I argue that they can be model as a Gaussian beam with the waist radius equal to the radius of the star, given a certain frequency. Does this make sense?

What key words should I search in google scholar?

Thanks!
 
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The light emitted from a star is not a narrow parallel beam, it is radial.
What is your reason for needing a model?
How will you model the aperture of your observer?
Are you modelling the light in free space, or light reaching the surface of the Earth?
 
How about it ?
E^2_{av}=B^2_{av}=\frac{S}{8\pi R^2}
\mathbf{E}\times\mathbf{R}=0,\mathbf{B}\times\mathbf{R}=0
where ##\mathbf{R}## is vector from the star to the Earth.
 
Baluncore said:
The light emitted from a star is not a narrow parallel beam, it is radial.
What is your reason for needing a model?
How will you model the aperture of your observer?
Are you modelling the light in free space, or light reaching the surface of the Earth?
Thanks, @Baluncore .

Initially, it is radial. But I am taught that when solar light reach the Earth, it can be treated as parallel light. I am not sure is this argument correct.

I am studying the propagation of light near a black hole. Well, most of light comes from stars, so I would like to model it.

To be specific, I am using the covariant wave equation, from Spacetime and geometry, $$\square \psi=[g^{00} \partial^2_0+\frac 1 2 g^{00}g^{ij}(\partial_i g_{00})\partial_j+g^{ij}\partial_i\partial_j-g^{ij}\Gamma^k_{ij}\partial_k]\psi=0 $$ where ##\psi## describe the light. For a laser, ##\psi## can be the Gaussian beam.

The emitting and observation parts are out of my consideration.
 
Hi, @anuttarasammyak.

At first sight, those equations seem familiar. But I do not understand them. What ##av## stands for? Anyway, I could understand that the first equation means the energy carried by electric or magnetic field.

But I do not understand the second one. Why ##\mathbf E \times \mathbf r=0##? Should not ##\mathbf E## be perpendicular to ##\mathbf r##?
 
I meant av as time average but now I think it is unnecessary for incoherent light.
Electromagnetic wave is a transverse wave.
 
anuttarasammyak said:
I meant av as time average but now I think it is unnecessary for incoherent light.
Electromagnetic wave is a transverse wave.
But for a transverse wave, do you mean ##\mathbf E \cdot \mathbf r=0##?
 
Yea, I was wrong.
 
anuttarasammyak said:
where R is vector from the star to the Earth.

I made a rough definition "to the Earth" because vectors from the center of star to south pole and to north pole differ slightly. In good approximation you observe light from the stars are plane wave though they actually are sphere wave.
 

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