How to quantify a color's effect on heat transfer.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around quantifying the effect of color on heat transfer through surfaces in a thermodynamic design context, specifically for an A/C system in a small vehicle. Participants explore the relationship between color, emissivity, and heat transfer coefficients, considering both visible and infrared light.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks coefficients to modify heat transfer through surfaces painted different colors, noting a significant difference between black and lighter colors.
  • Another participant points out that the effect of color may vary in infrared light, citing the example of a black trash bag that passes infrared light.
  • A participant mentions the challenge of calculating heat transfer through various surfaces, such as windows and roofs, while considering color.
  • Questions arise about the appropriateness of using the surface's emissivity coefficient and where to find emissivity values for different colors.
  • Some participants suggest measuring emissivity across the full spectrum of relevant light for accuracy, while others propose that a total emissivity measurement may suffice for practical purposes.
  • There is a discussion about whether to consider both the emissivity of the paint and the underlying material in calculations, with one participant suggesting that the paint's emissivity is the primary factor if the paint layer is not too thick.
  • Another participant references a resource suggesting that automotive paints typically have emissivity values between 0.90 and 0.96, deciding to use 0.98 for calculations while incorporating a safety factor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the relationship between color, emissivity, and heat transfer, with no consensus reached on the best approach to quantify these effects. Some participants agree on the importance of emissivity, while others highlight the complexities involved in measuring it accurately.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of emissivity, potential variations in emissivity based on color and material, and the need for measurements across different light spectra. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

Indychus
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Hey,

I am working on a thermodynamic design problem, and am trying to come up with some coefficients to modify Qin through a metal surface that is painted different colors. I know that there would be a significant difference in heat through the surface if it were black as opposed to a lighter color, but i need some way to actually quantify it for use in a thermodynamic analysis. I would greatly appreciate any input on the subject.
 
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This is only true in visible light. It could differ wildly in infrared. A good example is a regular black kitchen trashbag, It's black, yet it passes infrared light completely!
 
That's very interesting with the trash bag, I have never considered that!

Basically, i am designing an A/C system for a small vehicle. I am trying to calculate Qin through the various surfaces, i.e. windows, roof, etc. I have no idea how to take color into account for the qin through the roof.
 
Would it be correct to use the surface's emissivity coefficient? Where can I find emissivity values for different colors?
 
Indychus said:
Would it be correct to use the surface's emissivity coefficient? Where can I find emissivity values for different colors?

That I cannot help you with. If you've already done a thorough google search then perhaps someone else here will be able to assist you.
 
Even with the same color (as seen by your eye), the coefficients can be different. If you want to do it properly, measure the emissivity for the full spectrum of relevant light. If some approximation is enough, measure the total emissivity in your relevant environment.
 
Well thanks for the input :) I'm pretty sure i can calculate the Qin and use the emissivity coefficient to modify it based on color and material, but I'd like a confirmation of that from someone who knows more about the subject than myself. Hopefully someone will chime in.
 
mfb said:
Even with the same color (as seen by your eye), the coefficients can be different. If you want to do it properly, measure the emissivity for the full spectrum of relevant light. If some approximation is enough, measure the total emissivity in your relevant environment.

The number does not have to be exact, a ballpark will work. Just wanting confirmation that I am approaching this the right way. Do I have to consider both the emissivity of the paint AND the underlying material?
 
Indychus said:
The number does not have to be exact, a ballpark will work. Just wanting confirmation that I am approaching this the right way. Do I have to consider both the emissivity of the paint AND the underlying material?

If it is paint on metal and not too thick a layer of paint then I reckon the only relevant factor for heat transfer would be the paint emissivity.

I found this link, which suggests that, ball park, you could treat emissivity factor of 'paint' as pretty near 1. After all, you should be pessimistic in these exercises.
 
  • #10
Thanks for all of the help guys, I think I've got this figured out. I found the engineering toolbox chart earlier today, but was hesitant to use the 1 since I find it hard to believe that a painted surface has the same emissivity as a total black body. I found another resource that claims the most automotive paints are between 0.90-0.96. To err on the cautious side, I am going to use 0.98 in my calculations, but am also including a healthy factor of safety to ensure that it has adequate cooling.

Really, I could just cobble this together and it would probably work fine, but doing the calculations is a great exercise, and I love this stuff :)
 

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