How would you compartmentalize this circuit?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the compartmentalization of a circuit involving cascaded operational amplifiers (op amps). Participants explore how to break down the circuit into stages, specifically focusing on inverting and summing configurations, while considering feedback mechanisms and the implications of resistor values.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the circuit can be compartmentalized into stages of inverting and summing op amps.
  • Others raise concerns about how feedback, particularly from resistor R3, affects the compartmentalization and whether it complicates the isolation of stages.
  • A participant proposes a method for analyzing the circuit using Kirchhoff's Laws (KCL) and expresses uncertainty about how to handle feedback in the context of the op amp stages.
  • There is a discussion about the role of resistor R6, with some stating it acts as a feed-forward path, while others argue it does not affect the gain of the first op amp due to its connection to an ideal voltage source.
  • Some participants explore the implications of assuming equal resistor values for simplification, while others advocate for keeping them as variables for broader analysis.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the practical utility of the circuit, suggesting it may function as a complex Schmitt trigger.
  • Another participant presents a formula for the circuit's gain and discusses the potential for both inverting and non-inverting configurations based on resistor sizing.
  • There are conflicting calculations regarding the gain of the circuit, with participants questioning the effects of feedback and the assumptions made in their analyses.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to compartmentalize the circuit or the implications of feedback. Multiple competing views on the role of resistors and the overall circuit behavior remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the analysis depends on assumptions about resistor values and the ideality of components, which may not hold in practical scenarios. The complexity of the circuit and the interactions between stages are highlighted as significant factors in the discussion.

  • #31
I did some playing around with the numbers tonight and I cannot make the gain of this circuit -3 with the original resistance values that I picked which were: R1, and R5 1 ohm and all the rest 2 ohms. I wrote up something quick on the computer which could take this through as many iterations as I wanted until all the voltages settled down or the circuit settled into a steady increase towards infinity. Bottom line seems to be that if R3 is sufficiently large R6 can offset the positive feedback if R6 is sufficiently small. But what is the most interesting is that if R6 and R1 are sized such that the input is canceled in the second stage and R5/R4 = R2/R3 whatever voltage that is on the outputs will stay that way. Jim, you said that
if R5/R6 = R2/R1 gain is zero
which is correct in that the signal never gets into the second stage. You also said
R5/R4 = R2/R3 makes gain approach infinite
Well, not quite. Both of those conditions can be met at the same time. If you set these resistances up this way in a world with perfect opamps and perfect resistors we could give a resistor a slight momentary tweak in resistance and the voltages would drift in the appropriate direction and at the moment the resistance goes back to satisfy R5/R4 = R2/R3 whatever voltage that is on the outputs will stay this way indefinitely. Of course in the real world there are offset errors and tolerances so eventually it would drift.
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
  • #32
Averagesupernova said:
Well, not quite. Both of those conditions can be met at the same time.
Sure, if both are met gain is 0/0 , indeterminate
the circuit is on a cusp ready to tumble into one of two states ?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
5K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
15
Views
2K