Hyperbolic Geom of Minkowski Space: Chung et al. 2009

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the treatment of Minkowski space using hyperbolic angles as presented in the paper by Chung et al. (2009). Participants explore the mathematical formulations and implications of defining angles and inner products in Minkowski space, questioning the standard nature of this approach and its relation to hyperbolic geometry and special relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant summarizes the paper's definition of an angle between inertial planes in Minkowski space as arctanh(v) and discusses the inner products of vectors using this angle.
  • Another participant argues that the paper complicates standard treatments, suggesting a simpler parametrization of time-like vectors using hyperbolic functions and providing mathematical expressions for inner products.
  • A third participant expresses gratitude for the explanation provided, indicating a positive reception of the technical details shared.
  • Concerns are raised about copyright issues related to sharing the paper, with a suggestion to remove any links to it.
  • One participant critiques the use of the term "hyperbolic geometry," clarifying that Minkowski spacetime is flat and does not satisfy the conditions of hyperbolic geometry, while still acknowledging the use of hyperbolic trigonometry in special relativity.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that the inverse functions of hyperbolic functions relate to areas rather than angles, suggesting a shift in perspective on how these concepts apply to Minkowski spacetime.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the complexity and classification of the treatment of Minkowski space in the discussed paper. There is no consensus on whether the approach is standard, overly complicated, or flawed, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of hyperbolic geometry in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the potential confusion surrounding the terminology of "hyperbolic geometry" in relation to Minkowski spacetime, noting the distinctions between flat and curved geometries and the implications for understanding special relativity.

nomadreid
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TL;DR
Is the treatment of the geometry of Minkowski space as in the cited article (angle ϑ between inertial frames ϑ=tanh(v/c) with relative velocity v/c, inner product for timelike vectors as |A|*|B|*cosh(ϑ), etc.) one of the standard treatments?
In "The Geometry of Minkowski Space in Terms of Hyperbolic Angles" by Chung, L'yi, & Chung in the Journal of the Korean Physical Society, Vol. 55, No. 6, December 2009, pp. 2323-2327 , the authors define an angle ϑ between the respective inertial planes of two observers in Minkowski space with a relative velocity of v (with c=1) as arctanh(v), and inner products of vectors denoting events by using this angle : for timelike vectors A and B, denoting |A| and |B| as the corresponding spacetime intervals (+ - - -) , the inner product is |A|*|B|*cosh(ϑ), for spacelike ones the same but negative, and between a spacelike and a timelike vector with a similar expression. (This vaguely reminds me of the discussion of rapidity in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapidity, but I'm not sure if that is relevant.) My question is, assuming I have presented it correctly, whether this treatment is one of (albeit not the only) the standard treatments of a geometry in Minkowski space, or whether it is just a curiosity, or whether it is flawed.
 
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I think the paper, which I would not link here due to Copyright, is overcomplicating standard things. If you have a time-like vector in the Minkowski plane you can parametrize it with a parameter (I'd not call it angle for pedagogical reasons, because it's hard enough for students to forget about Euclidean geometry when looking at a Minkowski diagram) as
$$a=A (\cosh \eta,\sinh \eta) \; \Rightarrow \; a \cdot a=A^2 (\cosh^2 \eta - \sinh^2 \eta),$$
where ##A \in \mathbb{R}## and ##\eta \in \mathbb{R}##. Then products of two time-like vectors are given as
$$a_1 \cdot a_2 =A_1 A_2 (\cosh \eta_1 \cosh \eta_2 - \sinh \eta_1 \sinh \eta_2)=A_1 A_2 \cosh(\eta_1-\eta_2).$$
For a space-like vector the corresponding parametrization is
$$a=A(\sinh \eta,\cosh \eta) \; \Rightarrow \; a \cdot a=-A^2,$$
and
$$a_1 \cdot a_2 = A_1 A_2 (\sinh \eta_1 \sinh \eta_2-\cosh \eta_1 \cosh \eta_2)=-A_1 A_2\cosh(\eta_1-\eta_2).$$
I think there's no more behind this than this simple math with hyperbolic functions.

For time-like vectors the ##\eta## is called rapidity.
 
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Thank you very much, vanhees71, for that excellent explanation.
Oops, I did not realize I was violating copyright by attaching the file (as it is freely available on the Internet). I have removed it.
 
I'm not sure, but it looks like a paper from a journal, and then usually you are not allowed to simply share it online. Better remove it, because it can get pretty expensive if the publisher takes legal action.
 
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A comment on the term "hyperbolic geometry" (as in the title and in the tags)...
since searching for "hyperbolic geometry" is not likely to yield useful results for understanding Special Relativity."Hyperbolic geometry" is a non-euclidean geometry that doesn't satisfy the parallel postulate, and is thus a curved space. (For example, some works by Escher.)

The spacetime of Special Relativity is flat---it satisfies the parallel postulate. We can talk about parallel lines.
So, it doesn't have a hyperbolic geometry.

However, the spacetime of special relativity is non-Euclidean
because the "angles" between timelike vectors is based on the unit hyperbola (playing the role of a circle in Minkowski spacetime geometry).
Special Relativity uses "hyperbolic trigonometry".
("Hyperbolic geometry" uses "circular trigonometry" since the angle between lines in hyperbolic geometry is based on a circle.)[In special relativity, "hyperbolic geometry" might be helpful to understand effects like the Thomas procession or velocity-composition in different spatial directions. The 3-dimensional "space of rapidities (which are related to velocities)" and the "mass shell" are hyperboloids and have an intrinsic hyperbolic geometry.]
 
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Well, and this tells you that you don't deal with angles but with areas, which is why the inverse function of the hyperbolic functions are called area functions (like ##\text{arcosh} x##, ##\text{arsinh x}##, ##\text{artanh} x##).

What these areas have to do with Minkowski spacetime and why it is precisely the spacetime we need to fulfill Einstein's "two postulates", you can read in @robphy 's great Insights Blogs (as well as his papers cited therein):

https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/spacetime-diagrams-light-clocks/
https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/relativity-rotated-graph-paper/
https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/relativity-using-bondi-k-calculus/
 
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vanhees71 said:
Well, and this tells you that you don't deal with angles but with areas, which is why the inverse function of the hyperbolic functions are called area functions (like arcoshxarcoshx\text{arcosh} x, arsinh xarsinh x\text{arsinh x}, artanhxartanhx\text{artanh} x).

In the past year or so,
this "area" (as opposed to "arc[length]") viewpoint of angles (I'll still call it that)
at the level of the inverse-function has been growing on me.
 
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