I am thinking about joining the Air Force

[efekwulsemmay]

I am thinking about going into the Air Force ROTC program at University of Arizona if I can get accepted. Hints, tips, ideas, opinions, words of praise?

 

[Cyrus]

Just make sure you want to do the Air Force and not another branch of the military. As long as you are an officer and have good grades, I think it will open a lot of cool doors for you.

 

[Pattonias]

If you are just starting you should have a little while before you'll have to contract. You will have time to feel it out a bit. It is not for everyone, but you may really enjoy it. Good luck.

 

[Proton Soup]

plan to be the property of the US Government until they get tired of fighting wars to occupy lands where we want to establish oil pipelines not controlled by Russia and other enemies.

 

[WhoWee]

I told my kids to say "Air Force", when the recruiters show up at the school and tell them they have one chance to choose.

As for "fighting wars to occupy lands where we want to establish oil pipelines not controlled by Russia", the Air Force doesn't exactly put "boots on the ground".

 

[Proton Soup]

As for "fighting wars to occupy lands where we want to establish oil pipelines not controlled by Russia", the Air Force doesn't exactly put "boots on the ground".

still, for people thinking they're just going to spend 4 years in and then get on with their life, maybe they ought to realize it may end up being a career for them.

 

[Evo]

still, for people thinking they're just going to spend 4 years in and then get on with their life, maybe they ought to realize it may end up being a career for them.

If they decide that's what they want as a career, then it's all good.

The military will give you an excellent education and graduates are very sought after in civilian jobs. I don't see any down side to this if he's willing to go the military route.

My first husband wasn't going anywhere at NASA until he went into Naval Intelligence, spent two years at a desk job in Washington DC with Naval Intelligence, then they were begging for him. You can sign up for a 4 year tour and get early out in 2.

 

[WhoWee]

The Air Force is one of the premier schools for insurance actuaries.
http://www.beanactuary.org/parents/salary.cfm

Salaries and Benefits

Actuaries are well compensated. Experienced Fellows have the potential to earn from $150,000 to $250,000 annually. In fact, did you know that new Associate actuaries earned a higher salary than the average MBA in 2002?

Compensation may vary significantly according to years of experience, industry, geographic region, and responsibilities. For example, an actuary with a Fellowship designation working as a financial manager in the banking industry could earn a higher salary than another Fellow working in the health insurance industry.

Up-to-date salary information for actuaries working in traditional insurance and pension settings can be found on the Web site of D.W. Simpson & Company. This firm's salary information is based on their latest Actuary Salary Survey.

Additional U.S. salary information for traditional actuaries can be found at the Bureau of Labor and Statistics at http://www.bls.gov/oco/home.htm.

 

[physics girl phd]

still, for people thinking they're just going to spend 4 years in and then get on with their life, maybe they ought to realize it may end up being a career for them.

I knew an officer at the AFRL that left the AF after his term of duty wrapped up, but retained his research job at the labs as a civilian. I think that was a good gig for him... but he certainly detested his first post-undergrad location -- guarding a missile silo in either North or South Dakota.

 

[dlgoff]

The military will give you an excellent education and graduates are very sought after in civilian jobs. I don't see any down side to this if he's willing to go the military route.

I had several guys in my graduating class that the Navy was paying their way through a BS in physics. But they did have to serve a couple of years in their nuclear program and spend a year on a nuclear sub afterwords. These guys were really sharp.

 

[efekwulsemmay]

I think it will open up many doors for me. Honestly, I don't know how I am going to get in, if it will be through U of A ROTC or if I will go through their Officer Trainning School. But reguardless, if I do end up going in I will most likely go career for the AFRL. I am thinking that if I go to have them pay for my college I might as well give them their monies worth.

 

[MarsVolta]

Go into the Marines!

 

[Moonbear]

I think it will open up many doors for me. Honestly, I don't know how I am going to get in, if it will be through U of A ROTC or if I will go through their Officer Trainning School. But reguardless, if I do end up going in I will most likely go career for the AFRL. I am thinking that if I go to have them pay for my college I might as well give them their monies worth.

ROTC has a reasonable amount of flexibility to get out if you change your mind, as long as you change your mind during your freshman year. It's a great way to get your education paid for you, but do keep in mind that it's going to add some obligations to your time during college that you will need to balance with your academic workload. I've had a couple students in ROTC, and sometimes get a bit annoyed that the program expects them to skip classes for their major to attend military science seminars or classes or training events. I don't know if that's just here or everywhere that they are so unreasonable about planning things (I've been tempted to tell the students they can't go and let the people from ROTC contact me to explain why they should have to miss my classes, but usually leave it up to my students which is more important based on their individual career goals...if I had a student struggling in my course academically, I would take a firmer stand on it.) Anyway, just be prepared that it might happen to you too.

As long as you research the matter carefully, know what you're getting into, what obligations you have once in the program, then there can be a lot of positives of getting the training that comes with ROTC.

 

[Invyz]

Sorry to bump an old thread...but I'm interested. I'm currently 17 and plan to do an undergrad in physics. I also have a strong interest in Astrophysics and Cosmology. I have been planning on applying to Air Force ROTC but after reading around I see Navy is also a strong option. How possible is graduate education during post-undergrad in either? If I'm looking for Astrophysicist employment after completing phD which ROTC + service would be more beneficial if I decided to leave or stay?

 

[mugaliens]

You can sign up for a 4 year tour and get early out in 2.

Er... No. Perhaps in your first husband's field, not as an O in the Air Force. If you sign up for 4 years, they'll keep you for four years, unless you're clammoring for a dishonorable discharge. And any schools you go, or additional education you receive carries an active duty service committment. Fortunately, they usually run concurrently. For education and any PCS, it's 2 years. For the flying schools it varies depending on the "needs of the Air Force," but it varried from 6 to 10 years while I was in.

Sorry to bump an old thread...but I'm interested. I'm currently 17 and plan to do an undergrad in physics. I also have a strong interest in Astrophysics and Cosmology. I have been planning on applying to Air Force ROTC but after reading around I see Navy is also a strong option. How possible is graduate education during post-undergrad in either? If I'm looking for Astrophysicist employment after completing phD which ROTC + service would be more beneficial if I decided to leave or stay?

Either one, and if you want to use your physics degree and go into the nuclear Navy, you'll do very well! Grades, grades, grades, though. Both also have science and research functions.

It helps to round yourself out playing sports, joining a social organization, or other endeavors, just to prove you're not only a geek, but focus on the grades. Without the grades, the star captain of the team doesn't get into the nuclear Navy (or other worthwhile endeavors).

 

[Vanadium 50]

If I'm looking for Astrophysicist employment after completing phD which ROTC + service would be more beneficial if I decided to leave or stay?

Neither. While there are good reasons to join the military, do not expect it to help you in a career as an astrophysicist. That's not one of them.

 

[Invyz]

So if I wanted to work for NASA or another space organization, being in the Air Force would not help at all?

 

[Vanadium 50]

What makes you think all (or even most) astrophysicists work for NASA.

 

[turbo]

If you want to work for NASA or on NASA-run projects, you can accomplish that another way. For instance, there are people at the University of Arizona who work on NASA projects, including designing probes, suggesting missions, overseeing missions, etc. Plus U of A is affiliated with a world-class observatory complex. You could find out where your aptitudes lie, and with some hard work and good grades, you could end up working on research projects under the direction of your professors and/or grad students.

 

[Invyz]

What makes you think all (or even most) astrophysicists work for NASA.

nothing, its just a general goal of a career I could see myself doing and enjoy. They're simply an example

 

[Invyz]

If you want to work for NASA or on NASA-run projects, you get accomplish that another way. For instance, there are people at the University of Arizona who work on NASA projects, including designing probes, suggesting missions, overseeing missions, etc. Plus U of A is affiliated with a world-class observatory complex. You could find out where your aptitudes lie, and with some hard work and good grades, you could end up working on research projects under the direction of your professors and/or grad students.

Really. I thought the experience would benefit character and help me succeed and help me gain research opportunities.
So my physics ambitions would not be aided at all by the military?
This is eye-opening. I'm glad I posted here. (:

 

[turbo]

Really. I thought the experience would benefit character and help me succeed and help me gain research opportunities.
So my physics ambitions would not be aided at all by the military?
This is eye-opening. I'm glad I posted here. (:

I didn't say that a stint in the military would not benefit you, but you must realize that for every benefit and every bit of specialized training the military gives you, they expect commitments from you, and those commitments may take a lot of your time. You can have a much more direct path to exciting research work if you approach it from the academic side and excel in your studies. I have a young friend from Mongolia that in his freshman year at U of A was given work operating the school's telescopes, and on at least one project that year he was building electronics for a specialized sensor under the direction of a couple of grad students. Certainly, there are opportunities if you work hard.

 

[BobG]

The military won't be all that helpful for getting your PhD. In fact the conflicting time requirements would make being in the military a disadvantage.

The military would be a huge advantage if you wanted to be an engineer working with, or designing satellites. I wouldn't restrict that just to NASA, because if you come out with experience and a high security clearance, there's better paying options than NASA (NASA still outshines everyone else when it comes to glamor, though).

If you're sold on being an astrophysicist, then you'd probably be better off looking at other options for funding your education than the military.

 

[MotoH]

The Air force is a great idea to have them pay for your college, and then you get to be on base for 4 years!

I am currently thinking about Air Force Academy in Colorado, But they don't have the program I want to get into so its a downer there, but if I ever decide to go its a phone call to my recruiter away.

Having a job in the military, and then moving into the civilian sector, especially for sciences has helped a lot of people get jobs quick.

Would you rather hire someone who has served their country, has leadership skills, are able to stay on task and get the job done right the first time.

Or someone you really don't know about, their resume may look good, but you really just don't know.

I know who I would hire.

plus you get the satisfaction of serving your country and know that you have helped protect the freedom that so many take for granted.

Pilots are a mandatory 8 years I believe (what I was going into do) because of the extra training.

My cousin did naval ROTC, and while he was in college, has completed a whole bunch of training, from jump school to helo pilot. You will work your way up quick if you set your mind to it in the ROTC, so when you are done with college, instead of cleaning the bathroom, you get to be the guy telling the people to clean the bathroom!

 

[BobG]

The Air force is a great idea to have them pay for your college, and then you get to be on base for 4 years!

I am currently thinking about Air Force Academy in Colorado, But they don't have the program I want to get into so its a downer there, but if I ever decide to go its a phone call to my recruiter away.

Having a job in the military, and then moving into the civilian sector, especially for sciences has helped a lot of people get jobs quick.

Would you rather hire someone who has served their country, has leadership skills, are able to stay on task and get the job done right the first time.

Or someone you really don't know about, their resume may look good, but you really just don't know.

I know who I would hire.

plus you get the satisfaction of serving your country and know that you have helped protect the freedom that so many take for granted.

Pilots are a mandatory 8 years I believe (what I was going into do) because of the extra training.

My cousin did naval ROTC, and while he was in college, has completed a whole bunch of training, from jump school to helo pilot. You will work your way up quick if you set your mind to it in the ROTC, so when you are done with college, instead of cleaning the bathroom, you get to be the guy telling the people to clean the bathroom!

I'm impressed. You have to be nominated, usually by one of your Congressmen, for the Academy, plus your SAT scores normally have to be in the top 25%.

You're also lucky to have a recruiter that can get you into the Air Force Academy. Most students have to apply through the admissions office (same as any other college).

It is one of the top engineering schools in the nation (info for the kids that grow up and realize that there are other military careers besides "fighter pilot").

 

[MotoH]

All I have left to do is the SAT to get in.

 

[FredGarvin]

I'm impressed. You have to be nominated, usually by one of your Congressmen, for the Academy, plus your SAT scores normally have to be in the top 25%.

You're also lucky to have a recruiter that can get you into the Air Force Academy. Most students have to apply through the admissions office (same as any other college).

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that saw that. I almost spit my coffee out at the "one phone call away" comment. I have this vision that I saw a lot in my days..."but...but...my recruiter told me..."

 

[MotoH]

It's just like anything else you do in life. It's who you know, not what you know.

 

[f95toli]

Would you rather hire someone who has served their country, has leadership skills, are able to stay on task and get the job done right the first time.

Or someone you really don't know about, their resume may look good, but you really just don't know.

It depends. Being ex-military can certainly be an advantage if you are trying to find job in industry, but it is not at all obvious that it is an advantage if you are looking for a position in academia (which, since the OP was talking about astrophysics, is likely here).

Remember that the most important thing for a successful academic career is to publish papers in good journals (which btw means that the "really don't know" simply doesn't really happen). Having leadership skills etc is obviously not a disadvantage, but most universities would rather hire someone who has published a couple of papers in Nature...I can think of a few examples of people who at times are really unpleasant, are nearly impossible to collaborate with but are nevertheless excellent (and successful) physicists.

Also, the academic world is VERY international, so "having served your country" etc doesn't necessarily mean as much as in other parts of society.

 

[MotoH]

I was going towards a more open approach for various careers, not just a career in astrophysics. In this case having the aforementioned things (published papers and so on) will land you a job far faster than having just served.
Joining the military to eventually get a PHD is probably not a really good idea, since they take long enough as it is, and having a 4 year gap between undergrad and graduate school is going to be more detrimental than good.

 

[FredGarvin]

...and having a 4 year gap between undergrad and graduate school is going to be more detrimental than good.

Says who?

 

[MotoH]

Says my opinion.

Having a 4 year gap between schooling isn't going to be as good as going straight into graduate school. Not to say that it could help someone out either, just as a whole, waiting a long period of time between classes you are bound to forget things, and with 4 years of a job that will most likely not use most of the things you learned in college major wise, won't help either.
If it was a proven fact I would have cited it, otherwise it is my opinion.

 

[dotman]

Be advised, that if you are considering the service, we are at war, and you stand a fair chance of being deployed in a forward area. I've seen a number of these threads on PF now, and everyone talks about how the military will pay for college, etc, and neglects the most important thing...

When you sign up for the military, you are agreeing to give your life for your country, if necessary. It's not a commitment to take lightly. People will depend on you, potentially in life or death situations.

You may be posted at some base in the US, or you may not be. And you may not have any control over that.

I'm not saying its a bad idea. I'm saying you should know what you're getting into.

 

[MotoH]

From the stories I have heard from people in the AF, most of them have gotten stationed in UAE or Greece, and flown sorties over the ToO, but of course the AF does go into the sandbox and guard duty is apparently the biggest job for them. Plus I believe its only like 6 weeks for a non-pilot

 

[russ_watters]

It's just like anything else you do in life. It's who you know, not what you know.

Maybe, but your recruiter has no pull whatsoever with the academy.

 

[MotoH]

Maybe, but your recruiter has no pull whatsoever with the academy.

Of course not! I still have to get through admissions if I were going to get in, the call to the recruiter would be to make sure everything was correct and what not.

You need to have a letter from your state senator, which I can get pretty easily, and the SAT scores. There are some other insubstantial bits and bobs that have already been taken care of.

By no means do I have a spot secured if I were to go that route, but I probably have it a little easier than most because of the people around me.

 

[russ_watters]

Of course not! I still have to get through admissions if I were going to get in, the call to the recruiter would be to make sure everything was correct and what not.

Ehh, I wouldn't involve a recruiter in the process at all. He couldn't care less if you get into the academy or not.

You need to have a letter from your state senator, which I can get pretty easily, and the SAT scores. There are some other insubstantial bits and bobs that have already been taken care of.

Depending on what state, the nomination may or may not be easy. For me, in southeastern PA where there are hundreds of applicants for a handful of spots, it was not.

...and just so we're clear, it isn't a state senator (or rep), it is a senator (or rep) from your state.

 

[MotoH]

Yep, the guy in Washington. I'm not trying to come off as "oh me and the dean are best friends." I've just talked to my senator and he said that it shouldn't be a problem if I were to ask for the letter of recommendation.

I am assuming you went to AFA Mr. Watters? How did you like it? The campus looks amazing and I am thinking of going on the tour this summer

 

[russ_watters]

Navy.

 

[FredGarvin]

No offense, but you posted elsewhere that you were going to a CC. Not exactly a stellar item for an academy hopeful.

 

[MotoH]

No offense, but you posted elsewhere that you were going to a CC. Not exactly a stellar item for an academy hopeful.

I am also only 16 years old. If you were paying attention, you would have notice I said I was going via PSEO.

 

[cronxeh]

I did a semester of AFROTC, and the air force freesbie with bunch of ripe young college girls bouncing around.. well it was fun

Now that I mentioned it, I am seriously considering joining Air Force as an officer someday, just have to condense some thoughts together first.

 

[Invyz]

Can someone link me to the nuclear navy program you guys are talking about?
Also if I decide to do AFROTC, is it possible to enter the navy if I change my mind?
Also I have to grades and ability to get a recommendation to get into either the Naval or Air Force academy, what are the advantages of these schools over simply doing ROTC?

 

[cronxeh]

Can someone link me to the nuclear navy program you guys are talking about?
Also if I decide to do AFROTC, is it possible to enter the navy if I change my mind?
Also I have to grades and ability to get a recommendation to get into either the Naval or Air Force academy, what are the advantages of these schools over simply doing ROTC?

If you do AFROTC you are signing up after 2 classes (the 300 and 400 series can only be taken after you sign the contract). No, you can't switch to NAVY because you are on Air Force track. If you want to join the NAVY go to the NROTC or Naval Academy. Joining either of the academies will submerge you into the military lifestyle, you will live in discipline and breathe in the values. It is not the same as being a college hippy and occasionally running around in mud during leadership labs for ROTC

 

[Invyz]

See...how will I know whether that discipline and values are for me?
A Recruiter will be extremely biased, and I really am not familiar with anyone who has been through it.

 

[cronxeh]

See...how will I know whether that discipline and values are for me?
A Recruiter will be extremely biased, and I really am not familiar with anyone who has been through it.

That is exactly why you should take AFROTC AS 100 and AS 200 courses. You will learn history, values, and leadership skills without any obligation! You have to pay for the courses of course but its just like any other college course. You do not have to sign up for the military to take those courses. There is no obligation for you to continue taking them. You can leave at any time. You will meet some of the most oustanding people in AFROTC.

However if you decide to stay in the Air Force, you take the boot camp after AS 100 and AS 200, sign up, and you are now officially on your track to be an officer. After you complete AS 300 and AS 400 you will become 2nd Lt in Air Force. The reason why you have to sign up to take 300 and 400 is because it has some sensitive information.

I remember the first day I went there, they taught us how to stand straight, thumbs out with our hands on our side and how to salute a ranking officer. When you doing it, you do not feel demeaning, you are proud to be there. The commanding Colonel is at the detachment and he is talking to the cades and its like a big family that respects each other. This is on contrast with enlisted service (I don't know why I almost joined the NAVY at 17 for some reason after taking ASVAB)

Here is a course description: http://www.uml.edu/afrotc/default.html

AS 101 - Air Force Today I
Introduction to the U.S. Air Force and Air Force ROTC. This course will focus on officership and professionalism, military customs and courtesies, and communication skills.

AS 102 - Air Force Today II
Introduction to the history and organization of the U.S. Air Force. The origin of the Air Force will be described, and the current command structure will be reviewed.
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AS 201 - Evolution of Air and Space Power I
The Evolution of USAF Air and Space Power I survey course is designed to facilitate the transition from Air Force cadet to Air Force Officer candidate. Air Force heritage, leaders, and history are covered.

AS 202 - Evolution of Air and Space Power II
The Evolution of USAF Air and Space Power II continues study of topics coved in AS 201. Concepts of ethical behavior, basics of leadership, Air Force officer environment, group leadership problems and oral communication application.
--H-A-V-E--T-O--S-I-G-N--C-O-N-T-R-A-C-T--T-O--C-O-N-T-I-N-U-E---+-----f-i-e-l-d--T-r-a-i-n-i-n-g---------------------------------------------------------------------------
AS 301 - Air Force Leadership Studies I
Study of leadership authority, principles and accountability, management fundamentals, oral and written presentation and counseling skills required of an Air Force junior officer. Advanced Leadership Laboratory complements this course by providing leadership experience in officer-type activities.

AS 302 - Air Force Leadership Studies II
Study of professional knowledge, motivation, empowerment, mentoring, delegation, quality management, Air Force personnel and evaluation systems, leadership ethics, and oral and written presentation skills required of an Air Force junior officer. Continuation of Advanced Leadership Laboratory.
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AS 401 - National Security Affairs
This course is designed for college seniors and gives the foundation to understand their role as military officers in American society. The course closely examines the national security process, regional studies, Air Force doctrine, and current issues affecting the military profession. Emphasis is also given on refining oral and written communication skills. Continuation of Advanced Leadership Laboratory.

AS 402 - Preparation for Active Duty
Designed for college seniors and gives the foundation to understand their role as military officers in American society. This course builds upon the subject matter previously covered in AS 401 and also further examines regional studies, advanced leadership ethics, military justice, the military as a profession, and officership. Preparation for active duty life is one of the core elements of this course, and students will learn the role of an Air Force commander in addition to the different services and programs available on a military installation. Emphasis is also given to refining oral and written communication skills. Continuation of Advanced Leadership Laboratory.

 

[BobG]

Can someone link me to the nuclear navy program you guys are talking about?
Also if I decide to do AFROTC, is it possible to enter the navy if I change my mind?
Also I have to grades and ability to get a recommendation to get into either the Naval or Air Force academy, what are the advantages of these schools over simply doing ROTC?

If you want to make the military a career, there's definite advantages to attending one of the academies vs being ROTC.

For one thing, ROTC grads are reserves serving on active duty and have to be accepted "regular" to continue active duty. That part isn't quite trivial, but most will be accepted to continue active duty. It can make some difference in promotion, as well. You need to be promoted past O-3 (Captain in AF, Army, Marines; Lt in Navy) to complete a military career. O-4 is the first step where promotion isn't so automatic and Academy grad/ROTC grad could be a deciding factor (of course, if it gets to that point, then you're probably not having such an illustrious career, anyway, but it can still be traumatic for some folks that are definitely competent, but just not making the cut).

It also seems to make a big difference in performance for the lower ranks (which may be why so many can't get promoted past Captain). In general, performance of junior officers seems to go:

1) Prior enlisted (there's no substitute for experience and it's probably not even fair to compare a 30-year-old to a 23-year-old)
2) Academy grad (generally top-notch, even if inexperienced)
3) ROTC grad (liberal arts ROTC grads are particularly worthless - the only reason half these folks even want to stay in is because they eventually realize no one is going to hire an anthropology major)
4) Citadel grad (these guys might fit in in the Army, but they scare people in the AF)

By time an officer makes Major, any differences due to where they went to school pretty much disappear (the exception being Citadel grads - they stay scary their entire career). A Major that was a ROTC grad is pretty much indistinguishable from a Major that was an academy grad.

 

[MotoH]

Also, to add to what has already been said.

There are already spots reserved for certain careers if you go to AF Academy. (Pilots for sure) What this means is you have a much higher chance of actually getting the job/training you want/need right out of Academy than if you were an ROTC grad. Basically the Air Force sets aside spots in training for students who have recently graduated from the Academy.

 

[cronxeh]

Why would anyone want to be a pilot?? The concept of a manned aircraft is bound to be phased out in your career, do you really want to build yourself up for a disappointment? Try getting into the Air Force's astronaut program or command and control, or even satellite communications. Refer to http://usmilitary.about.com/od/officerjobs/a/13xx.htm"

Besides, a pilot is not getting trained for a masters in any engineering or science programs at the Air Force Institute of Technology. If you want to get a free Masters and/or a PhD, AFIT is a great school. And after you retire from the active service, you get free health insurance for life from the Veterans Affairs hospitals, not to mention that you are a lot more likely to be hired for any city/state/federal position with prior military service.

 

[BobG]

Why would anyone want to be a pilot?? The concept of a manned aircraft is bound to be phased out in your career, do you really want to build yourself up for a disappointment?

This probably has to be true. The problem is that the Air Force is run by pilots that see UAVs as almost a personal affront, but it's also undeniable that UAVs, long range cruise missiles, etc are making pilots a lot less significant, if not completely obsolete.

And after you retire from the active service, you get free health insurance for life from the Veterans Affairs hospitals, not to mention that you are a lot more likely to be hired for any city/state/federal position with prior military service.

Not true, unfortunately. Retirees get health care insurance for life from Tricare for $460/year for a family or $230/year for an individual. None the less, it's cheap enough I like to mention it on the dating site I use (sugardaddy.com). (It's tough to impress those 43-year-old gold diggers )