I hate chemistry Hate it Hate it Hate it

[Math Is Hard]

What I can't figure out is: do I hate it because I suck at it? Or do I suck at it because I hate it?

 

[Smurf]

either? both? its an ugly circle.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I know.. I know.. welcome to my pity party. Maybe I am being a big baby about this, but I got a 78 on my first test. waaa waaa waaaa! I can't make a C. I never make C's. I don't even make B's!

 

[Gokul43201]

What ? You don't make a C with 78...is that out of 100 or 5000 ?

 

[Bystander]

You may be a "victim" of the textbook companies --- your age group vs. what's currently fashionable for introductory chem texts? Try the library for some nice, dull, unillustrated texts from the 50s or early 60s --- Dull, Metcalfe, and Williams comes to mind --- give you a different viewpoint or slant on the thinking. Won't get you up to speed on the biotech revolution, but you aren't committed to a doctoral program in biochem at this point.

 

[Gokul43201]

What I can't figure out is: do I hate it because I suck at it? Or do I suck at it because I hate it?

Along these lines...for me it's cooking : I hate it (the act, not the idea) and I suck at it.

Haven't yet figured out the cause and effect, either

 

[Tsu]

I hate chemistry! Hate it! Hate it! Hate it!

Me too. Me too. Me too!

Nice party, MIH. Where's the chocolate?

 

[recon]

Calm down, Math is Hard. Is Chemistry your main subject? If not, just take it easy.

What a coincidence it is though...I just had my GCE Cambridge O-Level Practical Chemistry exam a few hours ago. I think I blew it. I did not test positive for oxygen gas after adding Hydrogen Peroxide to an unknown solution (it was green in colour) with Sodium Hydroxide.

Some of you will recall from a thread[/URL] that I'm scared of Bunsen Burners. I'm glad to say that I managed to light the Bunsen Burner without hurting myself or anyone in the vicinity, and without screaming too! I'm also very happy with my luck because no heating was required and I only needed the Bunsen Burner to light a splint to test for Oxygen gas.

 

[MSI]

well i hate chemistry too,
reason: every chemistry teacher i know sucks! they are all stuped and doesn't accept arguments .. all you have to do is taking chemistry and memorize it by heart! i didn't go to a chemistry lab ever!

 

[recon]

I don't like Chemistry too. As opposed to Mathematics and Physics, Chemistry is a big mystery to beginners like me. For example, I don't yet understand what causes the colour changes when you perform Qualitative Analysis. There is no logical explanation to it, so I actually have to memorise everything in Chemistry. Fe²⁺ ions causes green precipitate to form in Sodium Hydroxide, Fe³⁺ ions produces brown precipitate, and so forth...

 

[Tsu]

I'm really sorry you're so unhappy with your grade, MIH. I wish I knew how I could help you get your mind into the proper 'mode' to think about chemistry, you know?
If you think about it, tho - chemistry is really pretty easy. See, if it doesn't move, and it's supposed to, mix up some epoxy! TA DA! Fixed! Conversely, if it doesn't move, and it should, give it some WD40! TA DA! Same thing! Cool, huh? That's Chemistry!

 

[franznietzsche]

I'm really sorry you're so unhappy with your grade, MIH. I wish I knew how I could help you get your mind into the proper 'mode' to think about chemistry, you know?
If you think about it, tho - chemistry is really pretty easy. See, if it doesn't move, and it's supposed to, mix up some epoxy! TA DA! Fixed! Conversely, if it doesn't move, and it should, give it some WD40! TA DA! Same thing! Cool, huh? That's Chemistry!

Actually that's Applied Super-Glue vs Apllied Super-Lube Theory.

 

[LENIN]

I really liked chamistry last year. But this year it sucks new teacher new style of work a lot more homework .

 

[devious_]

I agree. Chemistry sucks.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Thanks for listening to me whine. You cheered me up. It's just one of those classes I have to get through, and I only have to take one chem class for my major, thank goodness!

 

[gravenewworld]

Honestly all you physicists should take a course on physical chemistry, i.e. chemical physics, you would reallly like it. Its funny that I majored in math and chemistry, instead of math and physics. Chem doesn't get interesting until you get past all the introductory stuff. The other good thing about chemistry is that it really is the only science that pays a decent amount of money if you choose a career in it as opposed to physics, biology, and mathematics.

 

[Math Is Hard]

You may be a "victim" of the textbook companies --- your age group vs. what's currently fashionable for introductory chem texts? Try the library for some nice, dull, unillustrated texts from the 50s or early 60s --- Dull, Metcalfe, and Williams comes to mind --- give you a different viewpoint or slant on the thinking. Won't get you up to speed on the biotech revolution, but you aren't committed to a doctoral program in biochem at this point.

That's so interesting that you said that. My textbook is subtitled "A Project of the American Chemical Society" and I always had this uneasy feeling that there was some hidden agenda they're trying to get across. The text seems to assume that people are coming into the course with the assumption that chemistry/chemicals/chemists are bad. It's like they are trying to undo some pre-conceived associations of "organic=good" and "synthetic = bad".

Recon, I bet you did better than you thought. I am going to get you some reallllllly long matches and ear plugs so you can light that bunsen burner without fear.

You know what Tsu, I think we need a treat. I'll go down to the Rocky Mountain Chocolate Factory at lunchtime and bring back some peanut butter fudge and some chocolate-dipped slices of cheesecake-on-a-stick and some of those extra-decadent caramel apples that are decorated with drizzled chocolate and marshmallows. I'll bring back enough for everyone in this thread! Gokul, I will pick up some maple truffles for you.

 

[Gokul43201]

That's so interesting that you said that. My textbook is subtitled "A Project of the American Chemical Society" and I always had this uneasy feeling that there was some hidden agenda they're trying to get across. The text seems to assume that people are coming into the course with the assumption that chemistry/chemicals/chemists are bad. It's like they are trying to undo some pre-conceived associations of "organic=good" and "synthetic = bad".

Ha ha. I'd like to see how students react when the book gets to the chapter on Synthetic Organic Chemistry

For a second there, I thought your book was titled "Project for the New American Century" ...but eventually, I recovered...yes, upon reading of the promise of chocolate.

 

[Tsu]

Yeah! And those maple truffles are KILLER.

 

[quantumdude]

I hated chemistry, too. I liked the laboratory part ok, but the classroom part was absolutely maddening. It didn't even seem like we were doing science, what with there being more exceptions than rules ("Silicon only bonds with 4 partners, except when it doesn't, like in these 143 cases. Memorize them.") At least that's how I remember it.

But, ever being the optimist, I decided to leave chemistry on a "high note", so my last course in it was a grad course called Quantum Chemistry. The professor was a theoretical chemist and kept saying that the Schrodinger equation is one of the most important equations in chemistry. I resisted the urge to raise my hand and tell him that it's the Schrodinger equation that makes chemistry a branch of physics.

 

[Ba]

Chemistry, ahhhhhh!
I never really liked the labs that much except for where we made things burn! But the thing I actually found interesting were also the things the teacher never wanted to discuss except possibly after class, but I had other things to do. I always found it interesting trying to figure out what happens when you hit an undefined spot in the equation and all the other ways equations didn't really work and were just an approximation.
But it was an introductory course and every so often I'ld go in and ask a question, like what would actually happen if you got a super conductor down to absolute zero, would it actually heat up again. In the normal class I slept :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: or finished up my homework for another class. I actually had fun with some parts but the calculations of moles over and over and over again really got to me.

 

[motai]

I hated chemistry, too. I liked the laboratory part ok, but the classroom part was absolutely maddening. It didn't even seem like we were doing science, what with there being more exceptions than rules ("Silicon only bonds with 4 partners, except when it doesn't, like in these 143 cases. Memorize them.") At least that's how I remember it.

It reminds me of when I was learning about the multiple exceptions in different oxidation states and also the funky orbital notations for the transition metals . At least I didn't have to remember the electronegativity and ionic radius for all elements.

It also doesn't help when the donation/acceptance definitions of acids and bases tend to conflict (such as Bronsted Lowry and Arrheneus versus the odd Lewis acids/bases).

 

[Bystander]

That's so interesting that you said that. My textbook is subtitled "A Project of the American Chemical Society" and I always had this uneasy feeling that there was some hidden agenda they're trying to get across. The text seems to assume that people are coming into the course with the assumption that chemistry/chemicals/chemists are bad. It's like they are trying to undo some pre-conceived associations of "organic=good" and "synthetic = bad".

(snip)

Ah-hah --- "PC Chemistry," Woodsy Owl and Ralph Nader --- that explains a lot. The ACS as a professional organization has a pretty mixed record; done some good things, done some bad things, and hosted a lot of meetings, schmooze sessions, and what-not. Getting involved in instruction beyond the establishment of criteria for accrediting curricula is one of the bad things.

The number of people who do a good job teaching general chem to non-majors is orders of magnitude less than the number of chemists in the world; the more common categories of instruction follow the "pearls before swine" style, the everyone should be a chemist approach (better than a kick in the teeth --- at least they're interested), the "I'm so much more intelligent than you, you couldn't possibly understand this material," and the "I hate being stuck with a non-major service course(I really don't give a sh!t if they learn anything or not). Unfortunately, textbook authorship has shifted into the same sort of distribution of qualities. Chemists don't really know what chemistry is, what it has done for the world, what it hasn't, what it can, and what it can't --- the five things that should be emphasized for non-majors. God knows I'm sorry.

I hated chemistry, too. I liked the laboratory part ok, but the classroom part was absolutely maddening. It didn't even seem like we were doing science, what with there being more exceptions than rules ("Silicon only bonds with 4 partners, except when it doesn't, like in these 143 cases. Memorize them.") At least that's how I remember it.

But, ever being the optimist, I decided to leave chemistry on a "high note", so my last course in it was a grad course called Quantum Chemistry. The professor was a theoretical chemist and kept saying that the Schrodinger equation is one of the most important equations in chemistry.

and, one of the most useless. Chemistry is all about interactions of a minimum of three bodies. C'mon, Tom, you're the QM guru, give us the first ionization of He from first principles. The "143 exceptions" are part of the working vocabulary that serves to bridge the gap between Schrodinger and the real world. They aren't exceptions to physical laws, just exceptions to the rules of thumb that have to serve as substitutes --- the physicists haven't worked out any useful approach to the three-body problem for us.

I resisted the urge to raise my hand and tell him that it's the Schrodinger equation that makes chemistry a branch of physics.

or, maybe it subordinates physics to chemistry ---- hmmmm. Let's see --- do more physicists hate chemistry than chemists hate physics, or do a larger percentage of physicists have difficulty with chem courses than chemists with physics courses. Maybe this needs a poll --- nah.

 

[MiGUi]

Books are not comics to have a plenty of photos. I love books physics books like Jackson's Classical Electrodynamics, or Goldstein's Classical Mechanics... because they explains the things, with words, with concepts, with math. Not with MSPAINT images.

Ah, I don't like chemistry, its very... (I can't find the correct word to describe it in english)

 

[Math Is Hard]

Ah, I don't like chemistry, its very... (I can't find the correct word to describe it in english)

I can't either. Well said, MiGUi!

But I have decided to end my suffering. I switched to "audit status" instead of "for letter grade" credit. I'll just sit in the lectures and soak up what I can and then take it for credit another time.

 

[quantumdude]

and, one of the most useless. Chemistry is all about interactions of a minimum of three bodies.

The "143 exceptions" are part of the working vocabulary that serves to bridge the gap between Schrodinger and the real world. They aren't exceptions to physical laws, just exceptions to the rules of thumb that have to serve as substitutes --- the physicists haven't worked out any useful approach to the three-body problem for us.

Of course, after the first day the Q-Chem Prof made that clear. After the first 3 weeks, we spent the entire semester studying approximations to the many-body problem.

or, maybe it subordinates physics to chemistry ---- hmmmm. Let's see --- do more physicists hate chemistry than chemists hate physics, or do a larger percentage of physicists have difficulty with chem courses than chemists with physics courses. Maybe this needs a poll --- nah.

Lighten up. Whenever I post in General Discussion, I am goofing off. That much should be clear from my tongue-in-cheek tone, and from the smilies.

 

[Math Is Hard]

My teacher knew how to deal with the many-body problem. At first there were 42 bodies in the class - and that means a lot of papers to grade. So she gave a really hard test. Now we're down to only 15 bodies!

 

[Tsu]

That's one smart teacher!

 

[JasonRox]

So... I shouldn't take chemistry?

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

This thread is damaging my excitement towards taking Chemistry next term. From my exposure to basic Physics and Chemistry in Science, and from taking Physics now, I'm assuming Introductory Chemistry is more exciting than Introductory Physics.

Chemistry has the formula equalization (or whatever it's called) with the shifting of things to make a match. That was cool.

Physics so far is word problems, find a then use ma to find Fnet then use Fnet to find Ff. It's formula after formula without any deep concepts so far. - I refer to the concepts as not deep because they seem easy to grasp when they are already there with explanations. I know I never could've came up with any of Newton's laws.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I think people either love or hate chem. I just happen to be in the latter category.

 

[Tsu]

So... I shouldn't take chemistry?

 

[JasonRox]

I have never taken chemistry in my life, and I'll be taking University Level next term.

I have the option not to, but there aren't many other options.

 

[MiGUi]

"Physics so far is word problems, find a then use ma to find Fnet then use Fnet to find Ff. "

Basic mechanics is not all Physics, dear. You should take a look on thermodynamics, electromagnetism, optics, and so and so and so.

If you study Chemistry, you would notice that for important things, you will use Physics: a bit of thermodynamics for heat, and so and a little of quantum theory to explain the atomic structure.

The mathematic level needed to do this is sooooooooooooooooooooooo low.

 

[gravenewworld]

Honestly, take a course in Physical Chemistry or theoretical Chemistry and say that the mathematical level needed to do chemistry is low.

 

[Chaotic42]

What exactly are you guys working on? I love my chem class at college, and I failed it in HS.

 

[MiGUi]

Physical Chemistry, you said it all ;)

 

[Math Is Hard]

My boss tells me this great story from his chem classes back in college. There was this one girl in the class who could never get any of her labs to come out correctly. All of her labs were a complete disaster, in fact, and she barely passed the course.
25 years later guess what she's doing...
she's a chemist!
True story.

 

[Gokul43201]

I think people either love or hate chem. I just happen to be in the latter category.

I guess I'm not a "people" then.

I wasn't really doing backflips in Chem class, but I didn't loath it either. Now, I appreciate chemistry and use is occasionally, but I don't have a passion for it, the way I have a passion for math or physics.

Also, (and partially since most of my Chem is self-taught) I'm guessing the reason for the widespread loathing is more related to the way Chem is taught, rather than the methods involved in the subject itself.

And most folks don't seem to think of the Sciences are a collection of methods, but rather, a collection of facts. That is one reason for the general dislike of science.

 

[Evo]

chemistry :zzz: :zzz: I'm with MIH.

My high school chemistry teacher was the pits.

 

[Tsu]

chemistry :zzz: :zzz: I'm with MIH.

My high school chemistry teacher was the pits.

I'm with (as they say in Green Bay, Wisconsin) "da bot' o' ya"!
We probably had the same teacher, Sis. Was it Mr. Hill? He was the DREDGES! Gave me a D, the chump. So, I dropped him like a hot potato, I did!

I couldn't get past a C in college Chem/Physics (BOOOOORING!) but I did get B's and A's in Radiation Physics. It was interesting and at least made sense - plus I knew it was something I'd actually use!

 

[Tsu]

My boss tells me this great story from his chem classes back in college. There was this one girl in the class who could never get any of her labs to come out correctly. All of her labs were a complete disaster, in fact, and she barely passed the course.
25 years later guess what she's doing...
she's a chemist!
True story.

Ivan has a great story about a guy in his chem class... It seemed he was having difficulty titrating a solution using his stop-cock. After fussing with it for quite sometime and becoming rather frustrated, he began stomping around the lab shouting that he couldn't finish his experiment because his "cock was leaking"!
(Gordon was a real whacked out kind of guy... )

The instructor was in hysterics.

 

[Math Is Hard]

WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! hoo hoo hooo! oh, too funny! waaahhaaa <- laughing so hard I'm crying!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Hey Math, this is OT but I wanted to make an interesting addition to Tsu's comments.

Jeff [not Gordon ] was an older student who returned to school after a career in music. I had known Jeff for about a year but I didn't know anything about this until I went to his house to provide some tutoring. When I walked into his house, the first things that I noticed were the five gold albums hanging on the living room wall! Not only did he write much of the stuff the made the 5th Dimension popular, way back when, you may also remember the song "We'll Never Have to Say Goodbye again"? Jeff wrote that as well and it was his biggest hit.

Throughout this career, he figures that he blew about a million $ on drugs, hotels, limos, planes, and parties. Even so, about thirteen years after that song hit the market he was still making 3-4000$ per month from the royalties. As for Tsu's comment, Jeff also did some stand-up comedy [we still have one of his routines on a 45]. In fact, in the 70's he was doing fairly well when this nutjob friend of his name Lorne Michaels called with this stupid idea for a new comedy show - later called Saturday Night Live. Jeff turned down the offer to be an original cast member.

Edit: one other strange twist in this story of wannabe celebrity friends. Tsu used to work with a Radiation Physicist who wrote the song Lady; done by Kenny Rogers. Who would of thought...?

 

[Math Is Hard]

Hey Math, this is OT but I wanted to make an interesting addition to Tsu's comments.

Jeff [not Gordon ] was an older student who returned to school after a career in music. I had known Jeff for about a year but I didn't know anything about this until I went to his house to provide some tutoring. When I walked into his house, the first things that I noticed were the five gold albums hanging on the living room wall! Not only did he write much of the stuff the made the 5th Dimension popular, way back when, you may also remember the song "We'll Never Have to Say Goodbye again"? Jeff wrote that as well and it was his biggest hit.

Throughout this career, he figures that he blew about a million $ on drugs, hotels, limos, planes, and parties. Even so, about thirteen years after that song hit the market he was still making 3-4000$ per month from the royalties. As for Tsu's comment, Jeff also did some stand-up comedy [we still have one of his routines on a 45]. In fact, in the 70's he was doing fairly well when this nutjob friend of his name Lorne Michaels called with this stupid idea for a new comedy show - later called Saturday Night Live. Jeff turned down the offer to be an original cast member.

Edit: one other strange twist in this story of wannabe celebrity friends. Tsu used to work with a Radiation Physicist who wrote the song Lady; done by Kenny Rogers. Who would of thought...?

How bizarre! I remember when that song came out when I was about 13 or so. I bought it on a 45 (BTW: should we explain to the kids what a 45 is? they are probably confused as hell! )after calling all the radio stations in town trying to figure out who sang the song. I would never have guessed it was written by a radiation physicist.

I am surprised Jeff would want to leave music. Did he hate chemistry, too? Did he run screaming back to his music career?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

No, Jeff's career in music was pretty much over by the time I met him. AFAIK, he is now a Chiropractor. His wife was a Biochemist. He still had a Silver mine in...New Mexico?... and planned to move near to his property there when he finished school.

We lost touch when Tsu and I left LA.

Oh man, I just remembered this too. Paul Williams was once his room mate. Jeff told me that William had stolen much of what made him famous. Jeff came home one day and Williams, and all of his work were gone.

Anyway, he was tremendously interesting and a real treat to work with. He always kept us in stitches. His mind was like a joke machine stuck in auto.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

What the heck, I think Jeff and Tim deserves a tribute.

Jeff Comanor; a true talent and a Comic Genius - allllllllllllmost.

Tim Kassen: Cool Physicist

Okay, sorry about that. btw, Chemistry is fun!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I just did a little checking. There are hits!

http://www.banned-width.com/shel/works/uponthemountain.html

The "California Soul" of 5D, April 20, 2000
Reviewer: "stoned-soul" (www.sufferingsappho.com) - See all my reviews

..there are great songs contributed by Jeff Comanor ("The Sailboat Song" features Ron Townson in a graceful solo), Ashford & Simpson ("California Soul"), and even Jimmy Webb pops in for the decidedly groovy "The Eleventh Song."

Same Jeff?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004SBSS/?tag=pfamazon01-20

http://www.onamrecords.com/artists/detail/Jeffrey%20Comanor

 

[Entropy]

I agree. Chemistry is just physic's queer cousin...