If energy is never lost where is it?

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    Energy Lost
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of energy conservation, specifically addressing the question of where energy goes if it is never lost, with a focus on heat energy and its potential uses. Participants explore theoretical and practical implications related to energy transformation, entropy, and the limitations of harnessing waste heat.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the nature of energy loss, suggesting that energy transforms into different forms, particularly heat, and wonders why this heat energy cannot be utilized.
  • Another participant explains that energy is not used directly but rather the difference in energy, noting that waste heat can be harnessed if there is a colder system to create a temperature difference.
  • A later reply introduces the concept of entropy, stating that converting waste heat into useful energy results in a loss of entropy, which must be compensated by another process that increases entropy to maintain thermodynamic balance.
  • Further elaboration indicates that recovering energy from processes like car exhaust yields less energy with each cycle due to the lower temperature of the recovered heat compared to the initial energy source.
  • One participant mentions that light energy emitted from the universe could be considered "lost" energy, adding another dimension to the discussion of energy conservation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of harnessing waste heat and the implications of entropy in energy conversion processes. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the practical applications and limitations of using waste heat as a resource.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the Second Law of Thermodynamics and the concept of entropy, indicating that there are underlying assumptions about thermodynamic processes that are not fully explored in the discussion.

Cheesus128
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Hey,
I know this seems like its a stupid question and I THINK I might know the solution but I want it certified.
My teacher told me energy is never lost but where does it go?
It turns into diffrent energy forms right?
Well why do we not use this energy that is being lost into the air by say heat, why don´t we use it?
I mean yes question is how but there must be a way to use this heat energy right?
 
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Generally you don't use energy - you use the difference in energy.
You can use waste heat from a process if you have something else colder to create a temperature difference and allow a heat flow.
 
Cheesus128 said:
Hey,
I know this seems like its a stupid question and I THINK I might know the solution but I want it certified.
My teacher told me energy is never lost but where does it go?
It turns into diffrent energy forms right?
Well why do we not use this energy that is being lost into the air by say heat, why don´t we use it?
I mean yes question is how but there must be a way to use this heat energy right?
There's also something called entropy which basically measures how free a system is to change itself given the amount of energy it has. It turns out that any physical process which decreases the total entropy of the universe can never occur. This is the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Turning waste heat into useful energy is one kind of process that results in a loss of entropy. (Think about it: in a hot gas, the molecules are free to move around in any direction, so entropy is high, but if the same gas is pushing a piston, the molecules have to be moving in such a way that they exert a force on the piston, so they have less freedom and less entropy. Roughly speaking anyway) That doesn't mean it's impossible to convert any of that heat into useful energy, but since it causes a loss in entropy, you have to pair your energy-extracting process up with some other process that increases the entropy enough to make up for it. Otherwise you'll wind up with an engine that doesn't work.
 
mgb_phys said:
Generally you don't use energy - you use the difference in energy.
You can use waste heat from a process if you have something else colder to create a temperature difference and allow a heat flow.
So to finish the thought, if your waste heat is released into the environment, it's gone and there is no further way to harness it across a temperature difference.

Or, if you recover energy from the exhaust (of a car, for example), you recover it at a lower temperature than when the fuel initially burned it. So you gain less the second time than the first time you used the hot gases. You could do an endless number of heat recovery cycles, each time recovering less than the last.
 
There is light energy that goes beyond the outermost masses of the universe, which could be considered "lost" energy.
 

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