Increasing car efficiency by rerouting airflow?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of increasing car efficiency by rerouting airflow to reduce air drag. Participants explore theoretical approaches, including the use of a supercharger-like compressor to manage airflow around the vehicle, and consider the implications of such a design on energy balance and efficiency.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using a supercharger to compress and reroute airflow around the car, potentially reducing drag but raises concerns about the energy costs associated with the compression process.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need for the pump to operate free of turbulence to be effective.
  • A different viewpoint compares the idea to a jet engine that generates thrust just to counteract its own drag, highlighting the potential impracticality and cost of such a system.
  • Additionally, a participant mentions the aerodynamic design of modern cars and draws a parallel to the hydrodynamic efficiency of dolphins, suggesting that nature may offer insights into improving efficiency.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various ideas and concerns, but there is no consensus on the feasibility or practicality of the proposed airflow management system. Multiple competing views remain regarding the effectiveness and efficiency of such designs.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the need for calculations to assess horsepower requirements and energy balance, but these calculations are not provided. The discussion remains speculative regarding the practical implementation of the ideas presented.

rumborak
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This is only a semi- serious thread, since I suspect there's a simple back-of-a-napkin calculation that shows this to be infeasible.

The idea is the following: a lot of a car's efficiency gets lost in the form of air drag, I.e. forcing the air to go around the car.
Could one upscale a supercharger, I.e. a compressor, to consume all the incident airflow hitting the front of the car, compress it, route it through the car, and in the back expel it again?
Intuitively this should reduce air drag, since a much smaller section of the car is now "visible" to the air.
However, the compression and the associated own air drag might thwart the energy balance, making it negative overall. But, is that necessarily so?
 
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rumborak said:
This is only a semi- serious thread, since I suspect there's a simple back-of-a-napkin calculation that shows this to be infeasible.

The idea is the following: a lot of a car's efficiency gets lost in the form of air drag, I.e. forcing the air to go around the car.
Could one upscale a supercharger, I.e. a compressor, to consume all the incident airflow hitting the front of the car, compress it, route it through the car, and in the back expel it again?
Intuitively this should reduce air drag, since a much smaller section of the car is now "visible" to the air.
However, the compression and the associated own air drag might thwart the energy balance, making it negative overall. But, is that necessarily so?
For your back-of-the-napkin calculation, figure out how many horsepower it would require to do that air pumping, and compare that to the power wasted in the excess air resistance... :smile:

EDIT -- Wait, you can write on both sides of a napkin, but only on one side of a used envelope... o0)
 
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berkeman said:
how many horsepower it would require to do that air pumping,
Yes - the pump would have to be free of turbulence.
 
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Sounds like you're essentially talking about a jet engine designed to generate just enough thrust to cancel out it's own drag, rendering the latter effectively zero.
 
mrspeedybob said:
Sounds like you're essentially talking about a jet engine designed to generate just enough thrust to cancel out it's own drag, rendering the latter effectively zero.
. . . . . which would cost a fortune to buy and to run, of course.
The aerodynamic design of modern fast cars does exactly what the title of the thread suggests.
On a parallel topic, I have read that the skins of dolphins has small ridges and valleys all over it and is 'deliberately' flexible, which is thought to improve its hydrodynamic efficiency. I wasn't aware of an equivalent in air (but who knows what birds' feathers do for efficiency?) but http://msbusiness.com/2007/12/entrepreneur-mimics-dolphin-skin-for-fuel-efficiency-enhancement/ which mentions the subject. There are dozens of other links about dolphin swimming efficiency being higher than you'd expect.
 

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