Index Notation and Vector Field Manipulation: Solving Complex Problems with Ease

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on solving the expression ∇ × (A × r)/2 using index notation, where A is an arbitrary vector field and r is the position vector. The initial steps involve applying the Levi-Civita symbol and the product rule, leading to a complex expression that requires further simplification. Participants highlight the importance of correctly applying identities involving the Levi-Civita symbol and Kronecker delta to derive the final result. A correction is noted regarding the factor of 1/4, with clarification that it should be 1/2 based on the original expression. The conversation emphasizes the nuances of vector calculus and index notation, particularly for those new to the topic.
Sunshine
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
I've been stuck with this problem since a while.. thought I'd ask here;

\nabla \times \dfrac{\vec{A} \times \vec{r}}{2}
solving normally isn't any problem, but I have to do it with index notation, where A is an arbitrary vector field and r is the position vector)

This is how far I can come:
(leaving out the vector-lines above A and r)
\frac{1}{4}(\nabla \times (A \times r)) = \frac{1}{4}\epsilon_{ijk}\cdot \partial_{j}(A \times r)_k = \frac{1}{4}\epsilon_{ijk}\cdot \partial_{j}(\epsilon_{klm} \cdot A_l \cdot r_m) = \frac{1}{4}\epsilon_{ijk} \epsilon_{klm}\cdot \partial_{j}(A_l \cdot r_m) = \frac{1}{4}\epsilon_{ijk} \epsilon_{klm}(r_m \cdot \partial_j A_l + A_l \cdot \partial_j r_m)

But then what...? I'm not even sure I'm allowed to bring in that \epsilon_{klm}. I'm very new to this notation, and don't know much more than einstein's summation convention.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Sunshine said:
I've been stuck with this problem since a while.. thought I'd ask here;

\nabla \times \dfrac{\vec{A} \times \vec{r}}{2}
solving normally isn't any problem, but I have to do it with index notation, where A is an arbitrary vector field and r is the position vector)

This is how far I can come:
(leaving out the vector-lines above A and r)
\frac{1}{4}(\nabla \times (A \times r)) = \frac{1}{4}\epsilon_{ijk}\cdot \partial_{j}(A \times r)_k = \frac{1}{4}\epsilon_{ijk}\cdot \partial_{j}(\epsilon_{klm} \cdot A_l \cdot r_m) = \frac{1}{4}\epsilon_{ijk} \epsilon_{klm}\cdot \partial_{j}(A_l \cdot r_m) = \frac{1}{4}\epsilon_{ijk} \epsilon_{klm}(r_m \cdot \partial_j A_l + A_l \cdot \partial_j r_m)

But then what...? I'm not even sure I'm allowed to bring in that \epsilon_{klm}. I'm very new to this notation, and don't know much more than einstein's summation convention.
SOLUTION HINTS:

You did very well so far!
When indexing a vector result, remember to indicate the LEFT side component with the FREE index ("i" in this case). Thus, your result should have been (note the "i" subscript added on the LEFT side):
(Note: To save time, the constant fraction factor is not shown.)

1: \ \ \ \ (\nabla \, \times \, (\vec{A} \, \times \, \vec{r}))_{\displaystyle i} \ \ = \ \ \epsilon_{ijk} \, \epsilon_{klm} \, (r_m \cdot \partial_j A_l \ + \ A_l \cdot \partial_j r_m) \ \ = \ \ \epsilon_{kij} \, \epsilon_{klm} \, (r_m \cdot \partial_j A_l \ + \ A_l \cdot \partial_j r_m)

What to do next?? Almost always at this point, the following identity is invoked:

2: \ \ \ \ \epsilon_{\displaystyle kij} \, \epsilon_{\displaystyle klm} \ \, = \ \, (\delta_{\displaystyle il}\,\delta_{\displaystyle jm} \, - \, \delta_{\displaystyle im}\,\delta_{\displaystyle jl})

Placing the above identity into Eq 1, we get:

3: \ \ \ \ (\nabla \, \times \, (\vec{A} \, \times \, \vec{r}))_{\displaystyle i} \ \ = \ \ (\delta_{il}\,\delta_{jm} \, - \, \, \delta_{im}\,\delta_{jl}) \cdot (r_m \cdot \partial_j A_l \ + \ A_l \cdot \partial_j r_m)

4: \ \ \ \ \ \Longrightarrow \ \ \ (\nabla \, \times \, (\vec{A} \, \times \, \vec{r}))_{\displaystyle i} \ \ = \ \ (\delta_{il}\,\delta_{jm})\cdot(r_m \cdot \partial_j A_l) \ \, + \ \, (\delta_{il}\,\delta_{jm})\cdot(A_l \cdot \partial_j r_m) \ \, - \ \, (\delta_{im}\,\delta_{jl})\cdot(r_m \cdot \partial_j A_l) \ \, - \ \, (\delta_{im}\,\delta_{jl})\cdot(A_l \cdot \partial_j r_m)

FIRST term on the right of Eq 4 is simplified below. Use this example to further simplify the entire expression and derive the final result.

5: \ \ \, \ (\delta_{\displaystyle il}\,\delta_{\displaystyle jm})\cdot(r_{\displaystyle m} \cdot \partial_{\displaystyle j} A_{\displaystyle l}) \ \ = \ \ (r_{\displaystyle j} \cdot \partial_{\displaystyle j} A_{\displaystyle i}) \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \color{red} \textsf{(Example 1st term on right Eq 4)}

(Remember to apply the constant fraction factor (1/2) when finished.)

~~
 
Last edited:
Where does that \frac{1}{4} come from ?To my mind,there was supposed to be only \frac{1}{2}.

Daniel.
 
dextercioby said:
Where does that \frac{1}{4} come from ?To my mind,there was supposed to be only \frac{1}{2}.

Daniel.
Good observation. "Sunshine" should make that correction for the final result (see Msg #2).


~~
 
Last edited:
Thanks xanthym... extremely good explanation! I wasn't aware of identity 2.

As for the 1/2 that became 1/4, I was thinking of the equation as \nabla \times (\dfrac{\vec{A}}{2} \times \dfrac{\vec{r}}{2}) whick isn't the case. Thank you for noticing. :)
 
stuck with the same problem: I know that

\partial_{\displaystyle i} A_{\displaystyle i} means \nabla \cdot A but is \partial_{\displaystyle j} A_{\displaystyle i} equivalent to \nabla A?
 
Nope,that's a second rank tensor in cartesian coordinates.You can see it has 9 components,i.e.the components of the GRADIENT of the vector field \vec{A}.

Daniel.
 
Back
Top