Infinite Curvature & Hawking Radiation Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of infinite curvature in black holes and Hawking radiation. Participants explore the apparent contradiction between the infinite curvature at a black hole's singularity and the idea that black holes can radiate energy away, raising questions about the implications for spacetime and the nature of singularities.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how finite energy can be subtracted from infinite curvature, suggesting a misunderstanding of the nature of infinity in this context.
  • Another participant clarifies that Hawking radiation originates from the event horizon, where curvature is finite, while infinite curvature is associated with the singularity at the center of the black hole.
  • A different participant notes that if black holes radiate completely away in the distant future, this raises questions about the fate of the singularity.
  • It is mentioned that the prediction of black holes radiating energy is derived from quantum field theory in curved spacetime, which differs from classical General Relativity, and that the complete theory of quantum gravity is still unknown.
  • One participant emphasizes that the curvature does not "flatten out" inside the black hole, as the singularity remains part of the overall spacetime, even if disconnected from the outside region.
  • There is acknowledgment that the original model of Hawking radiation may not accurately reflect reality, and other models exist that propose different outcomes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of infinite curvature and the nature of Hawking radiation. There is no consensus on how these concepts interrelate or what the ultimate fate of the singularity may be.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in current understanding, particularly regarding the integration of quantum mechanics and general relativity, and the unresolved nature of singularities in black holes.

Castty
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Hi,

i have a question which i can't solve myself, as i am not a student of physics:

I have heard of the infinite space curvature which occurs when matter collapses into a black hole.

On the other hand i have heard, that a black hole radiates energy away.

Now i see a contradiction: When the space curvature has a value that is infinite, how can u substract an finite value from it so that the curvature flattens out in the end? Is my understanding of infinite in that sense wrong? Thats must be, otherwise, due to hawking radiation, we would have "nacked" space curvature without mass.

Id be glad, if someone could help me out here.

Thanks and regards.
 
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Hawking radiation comes from the spacetime at the event horizon, where the curvature is finite.

The infinite curvature that you’re thinking about is at the singularity at the “center” of the black hole.
 
Thanks for the answer but i read, that a black hole will radiate completely away in a far far far future. If that's true, then someday even the singularity must be touched by this. Thats why my questions raised.
 
Castty said:
the infinite space curvature which occurs when matter collapses into a black hole

At the singularity at ##r = 0##, yes, as @Nugatory has said. More precisely, this is a prediction of classical General Relativity.

Castty said:
i have heard, that a black hole radiates energy away

Yes, but that prediction is not a prediction of classical General Relativity. It is a prediction of quantum field theory in curved spacetime, which is the best we have done so far at combining quantum field theory with General Relativity. But that theory is still incomplete, and when we have a full quantum theory of gravity, it might also change the prediction of what happens inside a black hole so there is no longer infinite curvature at ##r = 0##. We don't know for sure because we don't have a full quantum theory of gravity yet.

Castty said:
When the space curvature has a value that is infinite, how can u substract an finite value from it so that the curvature flattens out in the end?

In the quantum field theory in curved spacetime model that predicts that black holes radiate (more precisely, the original model that Hawking came up with in the 1970s), the curvature does not "flatten out" inside the hole. When we say the hole radiates away, what we really mean is that the region of spacetime inside the event horizon, which has a singularity at ##r = 0##, ends up becoming disconnected from the region of spacetime outside the event horizon. But the region containing the singularity is still part of the overall spacetime, even though it ends up disconnected from the outside region. So the curvature at the singularity never has to "flatten out".

I should emphasize, though, that we don't know whether this original model of Hawking's is what actually happens. It's a mathematical model that may or may not reflect reality. There are other, different proposed mathematical models that make different predictions, but as I said, until we have a complete quantum theory of gravity, we won't know which, if any, of the models we have now describe what actually happens.
 
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Thanks for the answer! That helps a lot. Exciting topic. Studied the wrong subject :)
 

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