Integral Solution Technique for (1+y^2+z^2)^(-5/2)

  • Thread starter Thread starter ehrenfest
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Integral
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating the integral \(\int_0^1 \int_0^1 dy dz \frac{1}{(1+y^2+z^2)^{5/2}}\), which involves techniques from calculus, specifically integration methods and coordinate transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore changing to polar coordinates as a potential technique, while some express concerns about the complexity of the limits in this transformation.
  • There are discussions about the feasibility of reverting back to Cartesian coordinates after integration, with mixed opinions on the simplicity of this process.
  • Some participants suggest using substitution methods or integral by parts, while others question the validity of certain approaches and results obtained through computational tools.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with various methods being proposed and critiqued. Some participants have shared results obtained from computational software, prompting discussions about their accuracy and the complexity of the integral. There is no explicit consensus on a single approach, but several lines of reasoning are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the integral's limits become complicated when expressed in polar coordinates, and there is an acknowledgment of the challenges posed by the integration region. Additionally, some participants mention the use of computational tools to assist in their calculations, indicating a reliance on technology due to the integral's complexity.

ehrenfest
Messages
2,001
Reaction score
1

Homework Statement


What technique would you use to do the integral:

\int_0^1 \int_0^1 dy dz \frac{1}{(1+y^2+z^2)^{5/2}}

?

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution

 
Physics news on Phys.org
Change to polar coordinates. Then it's trivial.
 
Not utterly trivial, Rainbow Child:
Although the "radial" integration will go easy enough, the limits for the unit square, as represented in polar coordinates are somewhat nasty.
 
Yes. But after the integration, he can change back to cartesian coordinates. :smile:
 
Rainbow Child said:
Yes. But after the integration, he can change back to cartesian coordinates. :smile:
Eeh, no.

We get:
\int_{0}^{2\pi}\int_{ugly}^{UGLY}\frac{rdrd\d\theta}{(1+r^{2})^{\frac{5}{2}}}=\int_{0}^{2\pi}(|_{ugly}^{UGLY}-\frac{1}{3}(1+r^{2})^{-\frac{3}{2}})d\theta
You can't shift this "back" into Cartesian coordinates in any simple, valid manner.
 
I get

(\theta_2 - \theta_1)(-1/3 (1+r^2)^{-3/2})|^{r_2}_{r_1}

How do I change back to rectangular coordinates?

EDIT: arildno beat me
 
I would treat 1 + z^2 as A

The solving \int dy\frac{1}{(A+y^2)^{5/2}} = \frac{2y^3+3Ay}{3A^2(y^2+A)^{3/2}} (used mathematica..) I think you can use integral by parts.
 
Okay, I'll do a bit more:

"ugly" is 0, so it wasn't too ugly after all.

Here's UGLY:
0\leq\theta\leq\frac{\pi}{4}, r=\frac{1}{\cos\theta}, \frac{\pi}{4}\leq\theta\frac{3\pi}{4}, r=\frac{1}{\sin\theta}
and so on around the unit square.

This is not at all simple to go further with.
 
Maybe there is no reasonable way to do it. Mathematica gave a nice simple answer so I thought there would be. But I was probably wrong.
 
  • #10
ehrenfest said:
Maybe there is no reasonable way to do it. Mathematica gave a nice simple answer so I thought there would be. But I was probably wrong.

No, it is probably something far more cleverer than trivial coordinate change that is needed here.
 
  • #11
Where did you find this integral?

I got by doing the whole in mathematica:

\left[ 2z + \sqrt{z^2+1} \left( \frac{2z}{3(z^2+1)} + \frac{z}{3(z^2+1)^2} \right) \right] _{z=0}^1
 
  • #12
That must be wrong, malawi, since the given integral is clearly less than 1 in value, whereas yours is greater than 2.
 
  • #13
I see no substitution that makes this an easy one. However the direct calculation is not that extreme. However I have to admit I used a little help from the integrator. I changed the variables a bit, z became x, sorry for that. Call 1+y^2=A^2, the inner integral becomes:

\int_0^1 \frac{dx}{\left[A^2+x^2\right]^{\frac{5}{2}}}

This can be solved using:

x=A \cdot sinh(t)

giving then:

\int_0^{arcsinh \left(\frac{1}{A}\right)} \frac{dt}{cosh^4(t)}

I did this integral with the integrator. After filling in the limits and replacing A again with y,
I got:

\frac{1}{3 \cdot (1+y^2)^2 \sqrt{2+y^2}}\cdot \left(\frac{5+3y^2}{2+y^2}\right)

We are left with the following:

I=\frac{1}{3}\int_0^1 \frac{5+3y^2} {(1+y^2)^2 \cdot \left(2+y^2\right)^{\frac{3}{2}}}dy

This integral can also be found using the integrator. After filling in the limits I got:

I=\frac{1}{18}\left(2\sqrt{3}+\pi\right)

Sorry for the integrator use, but it's late and I don't have the time right now to solve them by hand. Can this result be confirmed by anyone?
 
  • #14
coomast said:
Can this result be confirmed by anyone?

Yes. I cheated a bit too (used Maple 11) and obtained

<br /> \frac{\pi}{18}+\frac{\sqrt{3}}{9}<br />
 
  • #15
arildno said:
Not utterly trivial, Rainbow Child:
Although the "radial" integration will go easy enough, the limits for the unit square, as represented in polar coordinates are somewhat nasty.

You are right, this

Rainbow Child said:
Then it's trivial.

was stupid statement, since I didn't paid much attention to the limits of the integration. Even though the resulting can be evaluted without by hand (but not trivially :smile: !).

The region of integration in polar coordinates becames

\mathcal{D}_1=\left\{(r,\theta):0&lt;\theta&lt;\frac{\pi}{4},0&lt;r&lt;\frac{1}{\cos\theta}\right\},\, \mathcal{D}_2=\left\{(r,\theta):\frac{\pi}{4}&lt;\theta&lt;\frac{\pi}{2},0&lt;r&lt;\frac{1}{\sin\theta}\right\}

thus

I=\int_0^1 \int_0^1 dx dy \frac{1}{(1+x^2+y^2)^{5/2}}=\int\int_{\mathcal{D}_1}d\theta\,dr\frac{r}{(1+r^2)^{5/2}}+\int\int_{\mathcal{D}_2}d\theta\,dr\frac{r}{(1+r^2)^{5/2}}=I_1+I_2

The first integral I_1 reads

I_1=\int_0^{\frac{\pi}{4}}d\theta\int_0^{1/\cos\theta}dr\frac{r}{(1+r^2)^{5/2}}=-\frac{1}{3}\int_0^{\frac{\pi}{4}}d\theta\left(\frac{1}{(1+1/\cos^2\theta)^{3/2}}-1\right)=-\frac{1}{3}\int_0^{\frac{\pi}{4}}d\theta\frac{\cos^3\theta}{(1+\cos^2\theta)^{3/2}}+\frac{\pi}{12}=-\frac{1}{3}\,J_1+\frac{\pi}{12}

The integral J_1 reads

J_1=\int_0^{\frac{\sqrt{2}}{2}}d(\sin\theta)\frac{\cos^2\theta}{(1+\cos^2\theta)^{3/2}}=\int_0^{\frac{\sqrt{2}}{2}}d(\sin\theta)\frac{1-\sin^2\theta}{(2-\sin^2\theta)^{3/2}}}}=\int_0^{\frac{\sqrt{2}}{2}}dt\frac{2-t^2}{(2-t^2)^{3/2}}-\int_0^{\frac{\sqrt{2}}{2}}dt\frac{1}{(2-t^2)^{3/2}}=\arcsin\frac{t}{\sqrt{2}}\Big|_0^{\frac{\sqrt{2}}{2}}-\frac{t}{2\,\sqrt{2-t^2}}\Big|_0^{\frac{\sqrt{2}}{2}}\Rightarrow
J_1=\frac{\pi}{6}-\frac{\sqrt{3}}{6}\Rightarrow I_1=\frac{\sqrt{3}}{18}+\frac{\pi}{36}

Similary for the 2nd integral I_2 we have

I_2=\frac{\sqrt{3}}{18}+\frac{\pi}{36}

yielding to

I=\frac{\pi}{18}+\frac{\sqrt{3}}{9}

as coomast and Troels posted.

Obviously not trivial! :smile:
 
  • #16
Supercool, RainbowChild, tenacity's reward to you! :smile:
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
2K