Integration by parts of a differential

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the integration by parts of a differential expression involving a specific integral. Participants explore the challenges encountered while applying the integration by parts formula, particularly in the context of splitting the integral and determining the appropriate derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the integration by parts of the first term and notes an abundance of differentials.
  • Another suggests splitting the integral into two parts, providing a specific integral expression for consideration.
  • Several participants discuss the application of the integration by parts identity, specifically the roles of u and dv, and express uncertainty about calculating du.
  • There is a proposal to redefine u and dv to facilitate finding v, indicating that this might simplify the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to split the integral and the application of the integration by parts formula, but there is no consensus on the correct approach to calculating du or the implications of their choices for u and dv.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the identity for integration by parts but do not resolve the specific calculations or assumptions regarding the functions involved. The discussion remains focused on the procedural aspects of integration without reaching a definitive conclusion.

maistral
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I'll cut the long story short. What on Earth happened here:

integration.png


I seem to be unable to do the integration by parts of the first term. I end up with a lot of dx's.
 
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Try splitting the integral into two parts, with this as the first one:
##\int_{x_i}^{x_j} \frac d{dx}\left( kA\frac{dT}{dx}\right)N_i(x)dx##
 
I do know how to split the integral. I just wonder what happened to the identity. Judging from the result, as in the format int(u dv) = uv - int(v du);
u = d/dx (kA dT/dx)
dv = Ni(x)dx

The problem maybe is that I don't know how to calculate du. What would be the result?
 
maistral said:
I do know how to split the integral. I just wonder what happened to the identity. Judging from the result, as in the format int(u dv) = uv - int(v du);
u = d/dx (kA dT/dx)
dv = Ni(x)dx

The problem maybe is that I don't know how to calculate du. What would be the result?
Because we're working with nice single-variable functions (presumably), [tex]dq=\frac{dq}{dx} \, dx=\frac{d}{dx}(q) \, dx[/tex] To me, it looks like they let [tex]dv=\frac{d}{dx}\left(kA \frac{dT}{dx}\right) \, dx[/tex] and [tex]u=N_i(x)[/tex] This would imply [tex]v=kA \frac{dT}{dx}[/tex] and [tex]du=dN_i=\frac{dN_i}{dx} \, dx[/tex] which appears to be consistent with the result they got.
 
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maistral said:
I do know how to split the integral. I just wonder what happened to the identity. Judging from the result, as in the format int(u dv) = uv - int(v du);
u = d/dx (kA dT/dx)
dv = Ni(x)dx

The problem maybe is that I don't know how to calculate du. What would be the result?
What happens if you instead let ##u = N_i(x)## and ##dv = \frac d {dx} \left(kA \frac{dT}{dx}\right) dx##? Finding v shouldn't be that difficult.
 
Thanks!
 

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