Internal resistance of the battery and power dissipation

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of power dissipation due to the internal resistance of batteries, particularly in circuits involving multiple batteries in parallel. Participants explore different methods for calculating power dissipation and the treatment of batteries in comparison to resistors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether treating a battery as a normal resistor for power dissipation calculations is appropriate.
  • Another participant suggests that internal resistance can be treated like any other resistor, noting that batteries are often modeled with a fixed equivalent resistance.
  • A participant mentions using a specific formula for calculating power dissipation in a circuit with three batteries in parallel and asks if it is valid to replace total resistance in the formula with the circuit's total resistance.
  • Some participants propose that if the batteries are identical and in the same state of charge, they can be treated symmetrically, sharing the load current equally, which simplifies calculations.
  • There is a suggestion to use Kirchhoff's Laws for a more rigorous approach, especially when considering different internal resistances among batteries.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the best approach to calculate power dissipation and whether batteries should be treated differently from resistors. There is no clear consensus on a single method or approach.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about battery behavior, such as identical emfs and states of charge, which may not hold in all scenarios. The complexity of the circuit and the potential variation in internal resistances are also noted but remain unresolved.

abdo799
Messages
168
Reaction score
4
I got this question ( i won't include a lot of details because this is not the homework forum) where i need to calculate the power dissipation due to internal resistance. What i did is , i calculated total V and total R and I , then i treated the battery as a normal resistance ( eg. a 1kohm resistor , of course it has way less resistance ) , was that the right thing to do ?
Should the batteries be treated differently than resistors when it come to power dissipation?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
There are many different ways of thinking about and calculating these things. But you end up learning shortcuts and some ways are a bit shorter; whatever suits you is good. When answering exam questions, it's always good to put all your workings in and annotate them briefly so you can get some marks even if your arithmetic is wrong. That internal resistor can be treated just the same as any resistor. (Most batteries are treated as if they have a pretty well fixed equivalent ohmic resistor inside them.)
If you want to do it that way, that's fine. Input V and total R gives current. Then Isquared times the appropriate R gives the power dissipated in the resistor.
Sometimes it's good to calculate things in more than one way and feel smart when you get the same answer each time.
 
sophiecentaur said:
There are many different ways of thinking about and calculating these things. But you end up learning shortcuts and some ways are a bit shorter; whatever suits you is good. When answering exam questions, it's always good to put all your workings in and annotate them briefly so you can get some marks even if your arithmetic is wrong. That internal resistor can be treated just the same as any resistor. (Most batteries are treated as if they have a pretty well fixed equivalent ohmic resistor inside them.)
If you want to do it that way, that's fine. Input V and total R gives current. Then Isquared times the appropriate R gives the power dissipated in the resistor.
Sometimes it's good to calculate things in more than one way and feel smart when you get the same answer each time.
i have this problem where there are 3 batteries in parallel
and one resistor , to calculate the power dissipation i used this formula from this site ( http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/302l/lectures/node62.html )(V^2*r/(r+R)^2)
will that work ? can i simply replace the r+R in his formula by the total resistance of the circuit?
 
You can approach this in two ways. The easiest way is to assume that the batteries are identical and in the same state of charge. This means you assume the emfs are identical so they share the Load current equally. You can do the same as you have done already but, mentally, split the circuit into three batteries feeding three different parallel loads, each with resistance 3R (using ideas of symmetry). Each battery will dissipate 1/3 of the total (new value of) lost power. The voltage drop would be about 1/3 of the single battery case (when the internal resistances are low - as you'd normally expect - and the current will not change much, so the lost power will be about 1/3. Alternatively, you could also just assume a single emf and an internal resistance or r/3 (again assuming the batteries are totally identical.
The rigorous way to approach it would be to do the whole thing with different emfs and internal resistances r1, r2 and r3. This more complicated circuit can be tackled using Kirchoff's Laws 1 and 2. Personally, I reckon that's a bit over the top but it would be interesting if you wanted to know what happens when one battery goes soggy first (imagine a standby system, after years of use)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: 1 person
sophiecentaur said:
You can approach this in two ways. The easiest way is to assume that the batteries are identical and in the same state of charge. This means you assume the emfs are identical so they share the Load current equally. You can do the same as you have done already but, mentally, split the circuit into three batteries feeding three different parallel loads, each with resistance 3R (using ideas of symmetry). Each battery will dissipate 1/3 of the total (new value of) lost power. The voltage drop would be about 1/3 of the single battery case (when the internal resistances are low - as you'd normally expect - and the current will not change much, so the lost power will be about 1/3. Alternatively, you could also just assume a single emf and an internal resistance or r/3 (again assuming the batteries are totally identical.
The rigorous way to approach it would be to do the whole thing with different emfs and internal resistances r1, r2 and r3. This more complicated circuit can be tackled using Kirchoff's Laws 1 and 2. Personally, I reckon that's a bit over the top but it would be interesting if you wanted to know what happens when one battery goes soggy first (imagine a standby system, after years of use)

I will begin my calculations and post them, going to post a new thread in homework section, thank you
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 105 ·
4
Replies
105
Views
13K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K