Intuition for symmetry currents

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of symmetry currents, particularly in the context of pure Maxwell theory and conformal field theories (CFT) of free scalars. Participants explore the relationship between Noether's theorem and the conservation of currents, as well as the implications of gauge invariance and the role of fields in carrying charge.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to conceptualize symmetry currents in scenarios without fields to carry charge, suggesting a need for clarity on the connection between Noether's theorem and representation theory.
  • Another participant argues that in Maxwell's theory without matter fields, the matter current cannot be derived solely from symmetry considerations, indicating that it must be introduced manually while noting its conservation due to the anti-symmetry of F.
  • A different viewpoint is presented regarding the derivation of conserved currents in gauge theories, emphasizing that both Noether's theorem and the anti-symmetry condition of F can lead to conservation, regardless of whether the current is a simple entity or a more complex expression.
  • One participant discusses the process of gauging symmetries with external gauge fields to derive Noether's theorem for global symmetries, highlighting the connection to Ward-Takahashi identities and effective action.
  • Another response suggests that understanding charge conservation in electrodynamics through gauge invariance can provide intuition for Noether's theorem, emphasizing the need to analyze what must be "fixed" during gauge transformations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the derivation and understanding of symmetry currents, particularly regarding the necessity of fields and the application of Noether's theorem. There is no consensus on a singular approach or understanding of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about the nature of gauge theories and the role of currents, which may depend on specific definitions and contexts. The implications of anti-symmetry and the conditions under which currents are conserved remain unresolved.

electroweak
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How should I think about symmetry currents?... in particular, when there are no fields to "carry the charge", eg in a pure Maxwell theory or, maybe, in a CFT of free scalars? Perhaps it would help if someone elucidated the connection between the "charge" in Noether's theorem and the "charge" in representation theory (ie how fields transform).
 
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In Maxwell's theory w/o matter fields you cannot derive the matter current using symmetry considerations i.e. Norther's theorem, so you have to put it in by hand. But already then it must be conserved du to anti-symmetry of F.

Of course this is not the way we want to introduce the current. By inspection of the inhomogeneous Maxwell equations you derive (backwards) an enhanced Lagrangian now containing a coupling of the A-field with the current j. From this Lagrangian you CAN derive the current as Noether current.

Note that in many (all?) gauge theories conservation of the current follows from these two procedures: Noether's theorem and consistency condition due to anti-symmetry of F. The latter one says that you cannot couple a non-conserved current w/o making the theory inconsistent.

I think this always works regardless whether j is a single entity j or whether it is a more complicated expression based on more fundamental matter fields. Rather nice example is pure gluonic QCD w/o quarks; due to the non-abelian gauge group and the non-linearity of F you find a purely gluonic conserved current. Again both procedures work: the conservation follows directly from the anti-symmetry of F w/o using Noether's theorem; and of course you can apply Noether's theorem directly to derive the current.
 
Sure, you can derive Noether's theorem for global symmetries by "gauging" the symmetry with external (i.e., background) gauge fields as external sources in the effective action. The functional derivative of this action with respect to these source fields gives you the expectation value of the conserved current (setting the auxiliary fields to 0 after taking the derivative). Using local gauge invariance of the theory with external gauge fields you can derive in an elegant way also the Ward-Takahashi identities for the effective action and thus for the proper vertex functions.
 
electroweak said:
How should I think about symmetry currents?
I hope I understand your question correctly that you are trying to find an intuition for Noether's theorem. As you state, I would always fall back to something that you really know, e.g. charge conservation in electrodynamics and how you can derive it from gauge invariance, not directly from the continuity equation.
What you basically have to do is to look what has to be "fixed" if a gauge transformation is applied to the action - and voila, you find charge conservation from this very first principle.
 

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