News Iraqi unrest, Syrian unrest, and ISIS/ISIL/Daesh

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The Iraqi government is facing imminent collapse under insurgent pressure, with ISIS reportedly taking control of Mosul. The U.S. has refused military aid to Iraq, primarily to avoid appearing to support Prime Minister al-Maliki, whose Shiite leadership could be seen as backing Iran. Concerns are rising that if insurgents gain control of Baghdad, it could lead to increased conflict with Iran. The Iraqi army, despite being well-trained and outnumbering ISIS, has shown reluctance to engage, leaving military equipment behind in their retreat. The situation is evolving into a civil war, raising fears of broader regional instability and the potential resurgence of terrorism globally.
  • #301
OmCheeto said:
Did you read the article I referenced in an earlier post?


It kind of explains the Kurd-Turkish relationship.

Hossam seemed to approve of its content. Not that I need his approval, mind you, but I understand that different cultures have customs that are almost incomprehensible to me, and getting an insight into why there are differences, can be very enlightening. Also, the locals, in most all areas, seem to be keen on local history, and what's going on. So I trust his insight, more than I would an armchair quarterback from the Americas.

I have to say that I'm by no means an expert on Kurdish history/culture. My only insight comes from having kurdish friends from Iraq and Turkey (no idea about Syrian kurds). It seems to me that Turkey is recently growing more acceptable of the idea of a strong independent (Iraqi) Kurdistan to act as a buffer zone from the madness in northern Iraq. But I would be very surprised if the current mess changed the Turkish attitude towards their own Kurds. The article you posted explained the situation quite well.
 
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  • #303
  • #304
HossamCFD said:
It looks like Kobane might fall to ISIS hands soon
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29509828

Apparently, ISIL has entered the eastern side of town.

Islamic State raises flag in eastern Kobani, Kurds say town has not fallen
http://news.yahoo.com/kurds-vow-fight-last-islamic-state-tightens-grip-090705412.html

I can't believe that Turkey or any other state would prefer ISIL to the Kurds. It is doubtful ISIL would simply stop at the Turkish border. Even if they did, they'd spend their time consolidating before moving into Turkey and elsewhere.

Certainly, there is a complicated history of which ethnic group and tribe: Turkic, Iranian, Arabic, Assyrian controls what territory, and whose culture is predominant, besides the fact that whoever controls the territory and government gets to take much of the oil wealth in that territory.
 
  • #305
Astronuc said:
http://news.yahoo.com/turkish-president-demands-apology-biden-091236171.html
Erdogan disputes the claim and demanded an apology. Joe Biden called to apologize. Biden needs to be diplomatic, i.e., be more cautious in what or how he makes statements, and sometimes he needs to refrain from making statements about sensitive matters.
According to a piece I just viewed on CNN Newsroom with Brooke Baldwin, Daily Beast foreign editor Chris Dickey reported everything Joe Biden said Thursday at the Harvard Kennedy School was true, although it was not the whole truth, his counterpoint rejoined.

Dickey later added that Erdogan has been pursuing a determined agenda against Assad from long before the current conflict set in.

Here is Dickey's relevant article from the Daily Beast.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...lling-truth-about-turkey-saudi-and-isis.html#
 
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  • #306
HossamCFD said:
I have to say that I'm by no means an expert on Kurdish history/culture. My only insight comes from having kurdish friends from Iraq and Turkey (no idea about Syrian kurds). It seems to me that Turkey is recently growing more acceptable of the idea of a strong independent (Iraqi) Kurdistan to act as a buffer zone from the madness in northern Iraq. But I would be very surprised if the current mess changed the Turkish attitude towards their own Kurds. The article you posted explained the situation quite well.

I would be interested to see the results of a poll here at PF: "How many Kurds have you met?"
My guess would be that 99% have never met a Kurd.
Which, whether you like it or not, makes you the de facto expert. On Kurds anyways.
I've met enough people, from enough conflicts, to know that everyone has an opinion, on what is, "the truth".
Which, I've also found, can change from one moment to the next.


psst! Turkey! NATO, is kind of a, um, coalition. But I understand. It's complicated. I will not hold this against you. I've seen much, much worse.
 
  • #307
  • #308
Dotini said:
According to a piece I just viewed on CNN Newsroom with Brooke Baldwin, Daily Beast foreign editor Chris Dickey reported everything Joe Biden said Thursday at the Harvard Kennedy School was true, although it was not the whole truth, his counterpoint rejoined.

Dickey later added that Erdogan has been pursuing a determined agenda against Assad from long before the current conflict set in.

Here is Dickey's relevant article from the Daily Beast.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...lling-truth-about-turkey-saudi-and-isis.html#
A somewhat different perspective:
WHAT ARE THE FACTS?
The facts about the flow of weapons, money and fighters into Syria are murky, though U.S. officials and regional experts largely agree that there are points of origin in countries including Turkey, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Qatar.

"There is no doubt that Turkey for a long time let fighters get into Syria," said Marina Ottaway, a senior scholar at the Wilson Center, a Washington-based think tank. "They were determined to get rid of Assad so they were allowing people to go through."
. . . .
While President Barack Obama and other senior administration officials have talked broadly about the need to limit regional support for extremist groups in Syria, they've stopped short of calling out specific countries and governments by name.
http://news.yahoo.com/biden-critique-allies-creates-headache-us-203918140.html
 
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  • #309
Islamic State militants using some U.S.-made ammunition, report says
http://news.yahoo.com/isis-use-bullets-made-in-usa-140928571.html
Islamic State fighters in Iraq and Syria have been using bullets manufactured in the United States and 20 other countries, a new report from a weapons tracking research group says.

About 20 percent (323) of 1,730 cartridges recovered by Kurdish forces were made in the United States — and appear to have been taken from Iraq, according to a report published by the Conflict Armament Research group.
Of this happens in war when troops of one side overrun troops of the other, and uses the opponents' weapons against them.
 
  • #310
Turkey: Syrian town about to fall to jihadists
http://news.yahoo.com/airstrikes-hit-near-embattled-syria-town-074922276.html

Too little, too late?!
 
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  • #311
Astronuc said:
Turkey: Syrian town about to fall to jihadists
http://news.yahoo.com/airstrikes-hit-near-embattled-syria-town-074922276.html

Too little, too late?!
I think the current outcomes are a consequence the US top priority of no ground troops whatsoever rather than making the destruction of ISIS the top priority, with no ground troops a secondary consideration. Both former Secretaries of Defense Gates and now Panetta have indicated instances where political considerations trump national security issues in this administration. If this is the case, look for US action against ISIS to dribble away after the midterm election, independent of the military situation.
 
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  • #312
OmCheeto said:
"How many Kurds have you met?"
I traveled to Erbil two years ago. Lovely people. Unfortunately Turkey seems reluctant to flex it's military. My sense is that they are content with ISIS taking care of their "Kurd problem" for them.
 
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  • #313
Greg Bernhardt said:
I traveled to Erbil two years ago. Lovely people. Unfortunately Turkey seems reluctant to flex it's military. My sense is that they are content with ISIS taking care of their "Kurd problem" for them.
Well, that makes 3, out of the 166,757 forum members. (Hypatia responded to my Facebook poll, in the affirmative)

Thank you for mentioning Erbil. I just googled, and they seem to be the only ones holding out.

The Enemy of My Enemy: Iran Arms Kurds in Fight Against ISIS
Aug. 27, 2014
For months, the Kurds have been lobbying the international community for better weapons to fight the Islamic State of Iraq and greater Syria (ISIS). The U.S., France, Germany, among others, have pledged military support, but that has come slowly.
Now, it seems Iran beat them to the punch. “We asked for weapons and Iran was the first country to provide us with weapons and ammunition,” said Kurdish President Massoud Barzani in a press conference.​

http://www.aawsat.net/2014/09/article55336679
Thursday, 18 Sep, 2014
Erbil, Asharq Al-Awsat—Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) fighters currently pose no threat to the Kurdish capital Erbil, as Peshmerga forces continue to drive Islamist fighters out of Iraq’s semi-autonomous region, a Peshmerga official said.​

October 7th, 2014
This mutual threat has prompted the involved parties to re-evaluate their positions to ensure they can respond to this danger.

As for the Turks? We'll see that in the history books, 20 years from now. Or, maybe tomorrow.

Turkey Kurds: Kobane protests leave 19 dead
8 October 2014
While much of the unrest involved Kurdish protesters clashing with police, some of the violence was between Kurdish opponents of IS and radical Islamist Kurds who back the group.​
 
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  • #314
Greg Bernhardt said:
I traveled to Erbil two years ago. Lovely people. Unfortunately Turkey seems reluctant to flex it's military. My sense is that they are content with ISIS taking care of their "Kurd problem" for them.

I think you nailed it Greg. There have been frequent problems between Turkey and their Kurds for years. Saddam used total blunt force trauma and a bit of gas on those in Iraq.

An interesting read.

Brief History of Kurdistan

Kurdish people can claim one of the longest ethnic histories in the middle east. Their lineage dates back to as early as 2400 BC, where they occupied the same lands as they do today. However many foreign invasions and immigrants shaped the face of the Kurdish people over time. Though Kurds had followed the teaching of Islam since an Arabic invasion in the 7th century, their culture remained distinctly different from all the others found around it. This early separatism would lay the groundwork for problems in outside parties ruling the area.

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/~jlshupe/history.html
 
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  • #315
https://news.yahoo.com/watching-kobane-battle-kurds-lose-faith-turkey-anti-144822274.html
Kurds may look for some arrangement with Assad. :rolleyes:

http://www.ibtimes.com/fight-kobane-may-have-created-new-alliance-syria-kurds-assad-regime-1701363

Turkey deploys tanks to border as lawmakers to consider anti-IS action
https://news.yahoo.com/turkey-deploys-tanks-border-lawmakers-mull-anti-action-154214785.html

IS advance spells trouble for Turkey's Kurdish peace process
https://news.yahoo.com/advance-spells-trouble-turkeys-kurdish-peace-process-220653488.html
 
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  • #316
mheslep said:
I think the current outcomes are a consequence the US top priority of no ground troops whatsoever rather than making the destruction of ISIS the top priority, with no ground troops a secondary consideration. Both former Secretaries of Defense Gates and now Panetta have indicated instances where political considerations trump national security issues in this administration. If this is the case, look for US action against ISIS to dribble away after the midterm election, independent of the military situation.

We could stop the assault on the town with the right weapons without regular troops but using napalm, cluster bombs , C130 directed firepower, JDAMS and maybe a few daisy cutters/moabs for effect would require some SOF ground controllers in the area to direct the weapons real-time at close quarters. The decision to do this is on the President. IMO the kid gloves, must be taken off.
 
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  • #317
nsaspook said:
The decision to do this is on the President. IMO the kid gloves, must be taken off.
I agree. Maybe a shock and awe air force style. I feel like we're just picking scabs on a troll.
 
  • #318
Greg Bernhardt said:
I agree. Maybe a shock and awe air force style. I feel like we're just picking scabs on a troll.
Eeww.
 
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  • #319
nsaspook said:
We could stop the assault on the town with the right weapons without regular troops but using napalm, cluster bombs , C130 directed firepower, JDAMS and maybe a few daisy cutters/moabs for effect would require some SOF ground controllers in the area to direct the weapons real-time at close quarters. The decision to do this is on the President. IMO the kid gloves, must be taken off.

From whence do the current air strikes in the Kobani area originate? Cyprus? Qatar? Aircraft carriers in the Mediterranean or Persian Gulf?
 
  • #320
Islamic State seizes large areas of Syrian town despite air strikes
http://news.yahoo.com/renewed-assault-kobani-21-dead-turkey-kurds-rise-000000257.htmlMeanwhile - Parish priest, 20 Christians kidnapped in Syria
ROME (Reuters) - A parish priest and a number of Christians have been kidnapped from a Syrian village near the border with Turkey, the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem said on Tuesday.

The Latin Patriarchate, which oversees Latin Church Catholics in Israel and neighbouring countries, said Father Hanna Jallouf had been kidnapped on the night of Oct. 5 in Knayeh, a small Christian village. It said his kidnappers were brigades linked to the Islamist Nusra Front.
https://news.yahoo.com/parish-priest-20-christians-kidnapped-syria-catholic-news-111315650.html
 
  • #321
Dotini said:
From whence do the current air strikes in the Kobani area originate? Cyprus? Qatar? Aircraft carriers in the Mediterranean or Persian Gulf?

All of the above and more. Now that we are using Apaches in Anbar on ISIS forces perhaps we will soon see their use on the Turkish border.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...e-helicopters-for-first-time-to-hit-ISIS.html
He said the administration’s effort to draw a line between putting combat troops on the ground in Iraq and providing air support for Iraqi forces was rapidly becoming “a distinction without a huge amount of difference.”
 
  • #324
It's looking like Kobani has become a honeypot for ISIS.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/11/w...s-siege-of-kurdish-enclave-in-syria.html?_r=0
The rush of heavily armed Islamic State fighters toward Kobani from multiple directions has provided allied warplanes with an array of tanks, artillery and armed vehicles to strike easily from the air, a senior Pentagon official said. Elsewhere in Syria and Iraq, Islamic State fighters have in recent days dispersed to avoid the American attacks.
...
“We are killing them, and they keep coming,” said a Kurdish fighter from Turkey, Timur Demirboga, a 32-year-old tour guide who said he had been in Kobani for 15 days, with five of them spent learning how to fight.

“They are coming from the east of the city, and the west,” he said by telephone, with the sound of heavy gunfire in the background. “Today, they are coming powerfully,” he said, excusing himself as the fight drew near.

The Syrian Jihadists view of the war on ISIS.
 
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  • #325
nsaspook said:
The Syrian Jihadists view of the war on ISIS.
It seems like a no win situation and the beginning of a protracted conflict between ISIS and their sympathizers and everyone else. The fact that some find such violence is disturbing, but then those folks have lived either under a repressive government or surrounded by violence of war. The situation is exacerbated by inept governments.

During a discussion this morning, someone pointed out that "ISIS is like 30,000 or so Charles Mansons run amok." I feel sorry for those folks stuck in that area because there is nowhere else to go.

Kurds struggle to defend besieged Syrian town
http://news.yahoo.com/kurds-struggle-defend-besieged-syrian-town-093821128.html
Capturing Kobani, also known by its Arabic name of Ayn Arab, would give the group a direct link between its positions in the Syrian province of Aleppo and its stronghold of Raqqa, to the east. It would also crush a lingering pocket of Kurdish resistance and give the group full control of a large stretch of the Turkish-Syrian border.

Kurds are determined not to allow Kobani to fall and are fighting zealously, but they have not been able to curb advances by the more heavily armed extremists.
 
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  • #326
It looks like the honey-pot strategy is working. As they move into reinforce we wipe them out.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/kurds-halt-jihadist-advance-syrian-town-26135739

Farhad Shami, a Kurdish activist in Kobani reached by phone from Beirut, said the town was "relatively quiet" on Sunday apart from sniper fire. He said Islamic State fighters launched an offensive south of the town on Saturday but were repelled and lost many fighters.

"There are large numbers of dead fighters for Daesh who were either killed by the People's Protection Units or the (coalition) airstrikes," Shami said, referring to the main Kurdish force and using an Arabic acronym for the Islamic State group.

He said Kurdish fighters also were able to regain the border village of Tel Shair west of Kobani.

Abdurrahman said 36 jihadi fighters were killed in Kobani on Saturday. The jihadists control more than a third of the town.
 
  • #327
The Turkish, Iranian, Syrian, and Iraqi peoples have been 'dealing' with the Kurdish population for thousands of years. Fuggin people; on both sides.

The reason the Turks don't want to help the Kurds is the same reason they only allow Kurdish TV to be broadcast but a few hours each week.

Why is it so hard for people to respect people who don't fully have the same religion as you? That's really the question, us animal humans,

Maybe it's religion? There is no solution to this whole deal... 'God' please save me from you followers.

Humans are stupid!
 
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  • #328
WhatIsGravity said:
The Turkish, Iranian, Syrian, and Iraqi peoples have been 'dealing' with the Kurdish population for thousands of years. Fuggin people; on both sides.

The reason the Turks don't want to help the Kurds is the same reason they only allow Kurdish TV to be broadcast but a few hours each week.

Why is it so hard for people to respect people who don't fully have the same religion as you? That's really the question, us animal humans,

Maybe it's religion? There is no solution to this whole deal... 'God' please save me from you followers.

Humans are stupid!
Yeah, WIG, I have to agree. It's all so frustrating.

People are scared of people who are different from themselves. Yet the basis of that fear is usually unfounded.
 
  • #329
WhatIsGravity said:
The Turkish, Iranian, Syrian, and Iraqi peoples have been 'dealing' with the Kurdish population for thousands of years. Fuggin people; on both sides.

The reason the Turks don't want to help the Kurds is the same reason they only allow Kurdish TV to be broadcast but a few hours each week.

Why is it so hard for people to respect people who don't fully have the same religion as you? That's really the question, us animal humans,

Maybe it's religion? There is no solution to this whole deal... 'God' please save me from you followers.

Humans are stupid!

The differences between the Turks and the Kurds are primarily ethnic not religious.

http://www.differencebetween.net/mi.../differences-between-the-kurds-and-the-turks/
 
  • #330
US says Turkey OKs use of bases against militants
http://news.yahoo.com/us-says-turkey-oks-bases-against-militants-185210066--politics.html

Meanwhile - Militants Take Iraq Army Camp as Bombs Hit Baghdad
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/uk-official-airstrikes-stop-iraq-militants-26157730
Militants with the Islamic State group on Monday captured a military training camp in western Iraq, inching closer to full control of the restive Anbar province, as a spate of deadly bombings shook Baghdad, hitting mostly Shiite neighborhoods and leaving at least 30 dead.
. . . .
The camp, near the town of Hit that fell to the insurgents earlier this month, was overrun in the morning hours after clashes with Iraqi soldiers who were forced to abandon the camp and withdraw from the area, . . .
I heard about this on the evening news. Apparently, Dash gets more weapons and armored vehicles.and in restrospect - 3 Times Obama Administration Was Warned About ISIS Threat
http://news.yahoo.com/3-times-obama-administration-warned-isis-threat-192100956.html
 
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