News Iraqi unrest, Syrian unrest, and ISIS/ISIL/Daesh

[Dotini]

The differences between the Turks and the Kurds are primarily ethnic not religious.

http://www.differencebetween.net/mi.../differences-between-the-kurds-and-the-turks/

Let's not forget the Kurdish religions includes Yazidi *devil worshippers", and precedes Zoroastrianism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidis

US says Turkey OKs use of bases against militants
http://news.yahoo.com/us-says-turkey-oks-bases-against-militants-185210066--politics.html

This announcement may have been premature.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articl...rorism_Turkey_ISIS_Kurdish_Slovenia_Coalition

 

[JasonRoberts]

This announcement may have been premature.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articl...rorism_Turkey_ISIS_Kurdish_Slovenia_Coalition

More like a counselling error.

 

[HossamCFD]

Let's not forget the Kurdish religions includes Yazidi *devil worshippers", and precedes Zoroastrianism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidis

The overwhelming majority of Kurds are sunni muslims, but there are shia, alevis, and sufi (which is sometimes excluded from the sunni tradition) muslims as well as non muslims such as the Yazidis. I would argue that Kurds were discriminated against primarily for their ethnicity not their religious practice. The fact that most Kurds are sunni didn't spare them a genocidal campaign under the Baathist Saddam regime (see Al-Anfal campaign and in particular the Halabja gas massacre) who was a sunni head of a mostly secular regime, or decades long discrimination under secular regimes in Turkey that also happen to be sunni. Yazidis are almost always characterised by (and persecuted because of) their religious affiliation as Yazidis/devil worshippers/infidels and the connection with the kurdish ethnicity is rarely ever made.

 

[Q_Goest]

I've noticed a few reports like this one today. These reports of Shia versus Sunni make the most sense out of this situation to me.

The most important task facing Iraq’s new premier Haider Al-Abadi is not in fact the defeat of the terrorists of the so-called Islamic State, ...

The crucial labor that Abadi should be spearheading is a crackdown on Shia militias killing Sunni Iraqis. What they are doing is national suicide. Under the lamentable failed leadership of Nouri Al-Maliki, the political exclusion of the Sunni community contributed directly to the unrest which fueled the catastrophic advance of IS and the scattering of the poorly organized Iraqi army. Abadi vowed as he took office that he was going to reverse this disastrous marginalization of a key sector of the population. ...

Amnesty International has just given voice to what was already widely known - that Shia death squads are back on the streets kidnapping and murdering scores of Sunnis. ...

In the circumstances, Abadi lacks the security forces to crack down on the militias. Besides, it is clear that an armed confrontation with the Shia killers at this moment of peril is only going to benefit IS. Therefore, the only option is to persuade them that their rising murderous spree against innocent Sunnis is playing into the hands of the monster at the gates of Baghdad. Some of the Sunnis who have stayed in territory still controlled by the government are still there because they have nowhere else to flee. But many have remained because they are moderates who still believe in a pluralist, unified Iraq. They deplore the barbarity of IS and the foolish allegiance that some fellow Sunnis have given to it. They still hope that the inclusive constitution on which all Iraqis voted can be made to work.
If Abadi cannot reason with the murderous militias, then the terrible bloodletting will continue and Iraq will fall apart. He must use every means at his disposal to stop the internal conflict. Historically, Tehran has influence over the Shia gunmen. It must be begged to intervene. Then there is the deeply discredited Maliki. If he could be persuaded to denounce and work against the sectarian slaughter, in arguably his first act of true statesmanship, it might just make a difference.

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20141015221180

Similar report here:
https://news.vice.com/article/milit...-in-iraq-are-accused-of-terrorizing-civilians

 

[Astronuc]

As far as I know, the Kurds are an Iranian group that have assimilated Turkic groups.

Here is one reference by Prof. Mehrdad lzady - http://www.kurdistanica.com/?q=node/19
http://www.kurdistanica.com/?q=node/2
http://www.kurdistanica.com/?q=node/74

Another - http://www.institutkurde.org/en/institute/who_are_the_kurds.php

According to this article - http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1113459/posts - The Kurdish People: A Background and History
"the Yezidis embody a distillation of the Jewish, Deavic, Zoroastrian, Christian and Islamic beliefs which have consecutively ruled their mountainous homeland for three millennia."

At the moment, they just happened to be caught in the middle of some hostile neighbors.Islamic State seizes large areas of Syrian town despite air strikes
http://news.yahoo.com/islamic-state-militants-control-third-syrian-town-kobani-070350337.html

 

[Czcibor]

Turkey just (news from yesterday) bombed... Kurdish bases.

http://www.voanews.com/content/turkey-bombs-kurdish-separatists/2483000.html

I've got a feeling that idea of Turkish-Kurdish alliance against direct threat from ISIS is something that exist mostly in minds of the Westeners. From our perspective it's a no brainer idea, but we may underestimate local grudges/nationalisms and attempt to use ISIS as an instrument in local games.

 

[Astronuc]

ISIS Delivers ‘Shock and Awe’ with Arms from U.S., China, and Russia
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-delivers-shock-awe-arms-103000525.html

Early this year, Islamic State forces showed a powerful new side to their murderous military operation by knocking out five of the Iraq Army’s M1A1 Abrams tanks with anti-tank guided missiles and shooting down six of the army’s helicopters with a light anti-aircraft gun and rocket launchers while damaging 60 others.

The New York Times quoted a U.S. official in June as saying that, in all, 28 Iraqi Army Abrams tanks had been damaged in fighting with the militants, including the five that suffered “ full armor penetration” when struck by the anti-tank missiles. As for the helicopters either destroyed or heavily damaged between January and May, they constituted “a significant proportion of the Iraqi Army Aviation Command’s assets.”

 

[mheslep]

ISIS Delivers ‘Shock and Awe’ with Arms from U.S., China, and Russia
...

Which covers the Iraqi Army failures back in June.

 

[nsaspook]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/16/world/meast/isis-threat/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

"We never said Kobani didn't matter," Kirby said. "What makes Kobani matter for us from an airstrike perspective is that (ISIS is) there, and that they want it."

Kirby said the number of airstrikes in Syria or Iraq depends on how "target rich" an area is. The past few days around Kobani have seen more ISIS targets, he said. There are more ISIS fights there with more force, Kirby said.

U.S. fighter jets conducted at least 14 raids near Kobani on Wednesday and Thursday, according to U.S. Central Command.

http://www.centcom.mil/en/news/articles/iraq-and-syria-ops-against-isil-designated-as-operation-inherent-resolve

TAMPA, Fla., Oct. 15, 2014 - U.S. Central Command officials announced today that Operation INHERENT RESOLVE has been officially designated as the name given to U.S. military operations against ISIL in Iraq and Syria. The operation name applies retroactively to all U.S. military actions conducted against ISIL in Iraq and Syria since airstrikes against ISIL began Aug. 8 in Iraq.

 

[nsaspook]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/world/middleeast/isis-isil-islamic-state-kobani-syria.html

Increased airstrikes over the besieged Syrian city of Kobani have allowed the American-led coalition to take out large numbers of Islamic State fighters, the top American commander for the Middle East said on Friday.

Gen. Lloyd J. Austin, the head of the United States Central Command, acknowledged that the Sunni militant group might still manage to take Kobani, but indicated that even if it did, it would be a costly victory that could eventually help the United States and its allies in other parts of Syria as well as in Iraq.
...
They also attributed the increase in airstrikes in and around Kobani to a little-known new system where Syrian Kurdish fighters fed target information to allied war planners.

Put me down as skeptical that we would allow operational control of bomber targeting directly to the Kurdish fighters. IMO it's highly possible we have forces on the ground marking targets.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?322168-1/defense-department-briefing-military-operations-iraq-syria

 

[OmCheeto]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/world/middleeast/isis-isil-islamic-state-kobani-syria.htmlPut me down as skeptical that we would allow operational control of bomber targeting directly to the Kurdish fighters. IMO it's highly possible we have forces on the ground marking targets.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?322168-1/defense-department-briefing-military-operations-iraq-syria

It might be bikers.

German bikers unite with Dutch comrades in fight against ISIS
October 17, 2014
...
Median Empire is not the first European biker gang to fight against the militants; three members of the Dutch motorcycle club 'No Surrender' are now in the Mosul region of Iraq, leading and training a Kurdish battalion in its fight against ISIS, according to Klaas Otto, the head of the gang, who spoke to BBC.​

He added that the trio are ex-military – two marines and one soldier – who were pushed into action by the cruelty exhibited by ISIS.

“They wanted to do something when they saw the pictures of the beheadings,” the leader of No Surrender told Dutch public broadcaster NOS.

I would trust ex-Dutch and German military personnel with such a task.

 

[HossamCFD]

Interesting change of currents: Turkey is to allow the Iraqi Kurds to join the fight in Kobane

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29685830

But there is a delicate political dance here. On Sunday, Turkey's President, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, took his traditional tough line on the Kurdish militia in Syria, calling them "terrorists" and saying that they must not be armed by Turkey or the US.

Then Washington went ahead and did just that, dropping weapons to Kurdish fighters around Kobane, quite possibly with tacit Turkish approval during a phone call that took place between the two presidents.

So as far as Turkey is concerned the Syrian Kurds are terrorists. However, the Iraqi Kurds, who are not seen as terrorists, are allowed to pass through Turkey to join forces with the Syrian Kurds, which I guess makes Kobane a good terrorists vs bad terrorists fight.

Turkish Kurds are still not allowed to cross the border to help their brethren though.

 

[nsaspook]

Turkish Kurds are still not allowed to cross the border to help their brethren though.

Pretzel logic but at least the people who need the weapons are finally getting them.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/20/world/meast/isis-airstrikes/index.html

 

[Astronuc]

Now sympathizers abroad - Parliament Hill shooting: Soldier killed, one gunman dead; both now identified
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/uniformed-canadian-soldier-shot-at-ottawa-war-memorial-140825845.html

Retired U.S. Army Lt. Col. John Nagl calls for measured military approach to insurgencies or out-of-control groups like Daesh.
Counterinsurgency expert: Beating ISIS will require U.S. ground troops in Iraq
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/power-players-abc-news/counterinsurgency-expert--beating-isis-will-require-u-s--ground-troops-in-iraq-230548829.html

 

[nsaspook]

Somebody didn't like that flag on the hill.

 

[Astronuc]

Islamic State fighters attack crossing as Kurds set to reinforce Kobane
http://news.yahoo.com/islamic-state-fighters-attack-crossing-kurds-set-reinforce-133727178.html

Daesh fighters are getting up to the Turkish border, and perhaps crossing it.

 

[HossamCFD]

It looks like the honey-pot strategy is working. As they move into reinforce we wipe them out.

It looks like it's working throughout Iraq as well. Their obsession with Kobane is costing them heavily over there.

Islamic State: Militants 'pushed back' in Iraq
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29772082

 

[OmCheeto]

If there's any positive thing about the current mess, I think it's that the Kurds are getting closer to having their own country, which in my opinion is a few centuries overdue. I've always been impressed how they resisted Arabic and Turkish nationalism for all those years. They still have their language and customs.

I can't remember if I told you that I agreed with your sentiment here. If there's one thing that has struck me as odd over the last 3 years studying the situation in the Middle East, it was western determined borders for the region.

It looks like it's working throughout Iraq as well. Their obsession with Kobane is costing them heavily over there.

Islamic State: Militants 'pushed back' in Iraq
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29772082

After reading Astro's article, I researched the "Peshmerga" this morning. Interesting history. Though for the life of me, I can't keep the acronyms straight in my head. Is it the PKK, the KDP, or the PUK, that are the "bad" guys? Never mind. I'll just google it.

wiki and me;

PKK: Kurdistan Workers' Party... The PKK's ideology was originally a fusion of revolutionary socialism and Kurdish nationalism, seeking the foundation of an independent, Marxist–Leninist state in the region known as Kurdistan. (bad guys) (and idiots, IMHO)

PUK: Patriotic Union of Kurdistan... describes its goals as self-determination, human rights, and democracy and peace for the Kurdish people of Kurdistan and Iraq. (that's nice. we'll go along with that.)

KDP: Kurdistan Democratic Party... Foundation...The Soviet Union, then supporting the Kurdish national struggle against the monarchies of Iran and Iraq (this could not get more politically complicated...)​

 

[Czcibor]

Retired U.S. Army Lt. Col. John Nagl calls for measured military approach to insurgencies or out-of-control groups like Daesh.
Counterinsurgency expert: Beating ISIS will require U.S. ground troops in Iraq
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/power-players-abc-news/counterinsurgency-expert--beating-isis-will-require-u-s--ground-troops-in-iraq-230548829.html

I think that the USA idea so far is different - a protracted war. Starting from bombing of refineries had only a point, if one wants to deprive his adversary of cash in the long run.
(Hidden assumption: the USA had some choice of possible targets)

OmCheeto:
A Marxist in the White House is supporting Marxists in the Middle East, if you believe in the right conspiracy theories, everything suddenly starts to have sense... ;)

 

[OmCheeto]

OmCheeto:
A Marxist in the White House is supporting Marxists in the Middle East, if you believe in the right conspiracy theories, everything suddenly starts to have sense... ;)

You forgot Kenyan Muslim...

 

[HossamCFD]

I can't remember if I told you that I agreed with your sentiment here. If there's one thing that has struck me as odd over the last 3 years studying the situation in the Middle East, it was western determined borders for the region.

True. The western drawn, peculiarly straight-lined borders are quite odd. However, the circumstances in which they were created didn't leave lots of pretty options, the collapse of the Ottoman empire was very sudden and it left behind vast areas and cultures with little acquaintance with the concepts of modern states and borders. At the end of the day, we had quite a long time to fix this and gradually redraw the borders or possibly create an EU style union. IMO in some cases these borders make some sense, there is a distinct cultural difference between Iraq and Syria for instance in terms of their Arabic dialects. In other cases the borders seem quite arbitrary. The fact that the Kurds didn't get their own country was IMO the biggest mistake, but then again it's not clear that if they were granted their own country at the end of the first world war it would've coexisted peacefully at the borders between Iran, Iraq, and Turkey.

After reading Astro's article, I researched the "Peshmerga" this morning. Interesting history. Though for the life of me, I can't keep the acronyms straight in my head. Is it the PKK, the KDP, or the PUK, that are the "bad" guys? Never mind. I'll just google it.

All I know is that the PKK is a militant group in Turkey that only recently made peace with the turkish government, while the other two are the main Iraqi Kurdish political parties that sort of alternate/share the rule of recently autonomous Iraqi Kurdistan.

 

[nsaspook]

Frontline:
The Rise of ISIS

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/rise-of-isis/

 

[nsaspook]

Strike on Kobani ISIS IED vehicle
http://www.dvidshub.net/video/embed/369054

 

[Q_Goest]

Frontline:
The Rise of ISIS

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/rise-of-isis/

Thanks nsaspook. I'll have to watch this tonight. Seems like the underlying reason ISIS came to power regards the bad blood between the Shias and Sunnis, much more than just differences in their religious views. Perhaps the differences in religious views started it but when you have 2 groups attacking and killing each other, it becomes a Hatfield versus McCoy situation where revenge is the primary motive for the next murder. Saddam Hussein was a Sunni and was commiting the same atrocities that both the Sunnis and Shias are commiting today. I don't see either ISIS nor the Iraqi government as having clean hands at this point. They both seem to be just as guilty as the other. Is that your impression?

 

[Astronuc]

Obama White House did little to stop 'The Rise of ISIS,' says 'Frontline' documentary
Ex-administration officials sharply critical of Obama, failure to help Syrian rebels earlier
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-white-h...s---says-frontline-documentary-133053988.html

“The administration not only was warned by everybody back in January, it actually announced that it was going to intensify support against ISIS with the Iraqi armed forces. And it did almost nothing,” says James Jeffrey, who served as U.S. ambassador to Iraq between 2010 and 2012, in "Frontline's" "The Rise of ISIS," which airs on PBS Tuesday night (check local listings) and is previewed here exclusively on Yahoo News.

Jeffrey is one of a number of ex-administration officials who appear in the film and sharply criticize the decisions of the president they once served. Former U.S. Ambassador to Syria Robert Ford and former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta both take issue with Obama’s refusal to arm moderate rebels in Syria . . . .

 

[Astronuc]

Frontline:
The Rise of ISIS

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/rise-of-isis/

What a mess! I think the Obama administration blew it big time.

 

[Czcibor]

If you want to have a look into their mindset, then there is an interview with one:

http://www.spiegel.de/international...iew-with-an-extremist-recruiter-a-999557.html

However, I'd have to partially agree with with one of his point: "Democracy is for infidels". After the Arab spring I treat Muslim societies as generally not mature enough for such an idealistic system.

 

[Borg]

If you want to have a look into their mindset, then there is an interview with one:

http://www.spiegel.de/international...iew-with-an-extremist-recruiter-a-999557.html

I don't find it surprising given the beliefs that they cling to. Nothing but a hate-monger. He wouldn't recognize Allah if he flew out of the pages of the Koran wielding a blazing sword. Even if they had their precious caliphate with nothing but his idea of true believers and no contact with the outside world, people like that would still find something to hate. There would always be someone who didn't believe exactly the same, that they would have to 'punish'.

 

[Astronuc]

Another great piece by Frontline - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/losing-iraq/

Friends without experience ignoring or dismissing experts = failure.http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/iraq-war-on-terror/losing-iraq/iraq-how-did-we-get-here/

or lessons in how to fail.

 

[fargoth]

Seems like the underlying reason ISIS came to power regards the bad blood between the Shias and Sunnis, much more than just differences in their religious views. Perhaps the differences in religious views started it but when you have 2 groups attacking and killing each other, it becomes a Hatfield versus McCoy situation where revenge is the primary motive for the next murder. Saddam Hussein was a Sunni and was commiting the same atrocities that both the Sunnis and Shias are commiting today. I don't see either ISIS nor the Iraqi government as having clean hands at this point. They both seem to be just as guilty as the other. Is that your impression?

The difference between Sunnis and Shiites is in it's roots about politics rather than "religion" as you know it.
In Islam there is no distinction between these two aspects of life like in western culture.
The separation between these groups began due to a controversy over who is the rightful heir of the Caliphate, not long after Muhammad's death which then got much worse after the massacre in Karbala in which Muhammad's grandson and his followers were murdered.
This fight for power continues to this day.
Of course, since they don't see eye to eye for more than 500 years, their traditions have diverged - but this is just a symptom and not the cause of their animosity.