News Iraqi unrest, Syrian unrest, and ISIS/ISIL/Daesh

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The Iraqi government is facing imminent collapse under insurgent pressure, with ISIS reportedly taking control of Mosul. The U.S. has refused military aid to Iraq, primarily to avoid appearing to support Prime Minister al-Maliki, whose Shiite leadership could be seen as backing Iran. Concerns are rising that if insurgents gain control of Baghdad, it could lead to increased conflict with Iran. The Iraqi army, despite being well-trained and outnumbering ISIS, has shown reluctance to engage, leaving military equipment behind in their retreat. The situation is evolving into a civil war, raising fears of broader regional instability and the potential resurgence of terrorism globally.
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  • #452
Oh c$#*!
 
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  • #453
Islamic State deadline on Japanese captives passes with no word on fate
http://news.yahoo.com/japan-captives-mother-asks-islamic-state-release-ransom-013113301.html

Yukawa, aged around 42 and who dreamed of becoming a military contractor, was captured in August outside the Syrian city of Aleppo. Goto, 47, a war correspondent with experience in Middle East hot spots, went to Syria in late October to try to help Yukawa.

The Japanese government had provided $200 million for humanitarian aid to ME countries. Daesh took exception to this and is ransoming the two captive for $200 million.
 
  • #454
Astronuc said:
How long can Saudi Arabia stand on the sidelines?

There is probably less difference between the two than many Westerners believe. A recent Economist article (unfortunately, I can't cite it, as I've given my copy away) compared Sharia Law under the two systems (ISIS and the Saudis) and found little difference between the proscribed punishments in the two systems. The Saudi system of government is not to be admired. The Saudis are currently allies, but--if the common people ever gain power--that will change quickly. They don't like our religion, they don't like our support of Israel, they don't like our culture, and they don't like us!
 
  • #456
In battle against Islamic State, Iraqi tribal chiefs plead for more U.S. aid
At meeting with Obama envoy, Sunni leaders paint bleak picture of U.S.-backed campaign
http://news.yahoo.com/in-battle-aga...chiefs-plead-for-more-u-s--aid-155913315.html
Warmly greeting a group of Sunni leaders led by Sheikh Ahmed Abu Risha, the president of the Iraqi Awakening Council, Allen reminisced last week about the critical help the leaders had provided the U.S. military eight years ago in ridding Anbar province of al-Qaida insurgents.
. . .
But hours later, Abu Risha and Allen got a rude jolt. IS fighters, they learned, had just stormed the compound of Abu Risha and his family, overrunning security forces, blowing up homes and the mosque.

“This was a message to the United States — that you cannot protect anyone. … We are able to reach anywhere,” Abu Risha told Yahoo News.
Ultimately, there needs to be a force on the ground.
 
  • #457
Astronuc said:
...
Ultimately, there needs to be a force on the ground.
Whose force?
 
  • #458
Astronuc said:
In battle against Islamic State, Iraqi tribal chiefs plead for more U.S. aid
At meeting with Obama envoy, Sunni leaders paint bleak picture of U.S.-backed campaign
http://news.yahoo.com/in-battle-aga...chiefs-plead-for-more-u-s--aid-155913315.html
Ultimately, there needs to be a force on the ground.
My cousin tells me we will soon have a vast army of invincible AI robots, perhaps just in time for the ultimate battle on the ground.
 
  • #459
mheslep said:
Whose force?

Ideally a combined force of Iraqis (Sunni, Shia and Kurd), however, it may be difficult to establish such a force. The Sunnis and Shia are mostly divided, and there are sectarian interests who want to keep them divided.

Survivors say Iraqi forces watched as Shi'ite militias executed 72 Sunnis
http://news.yahoo.com/survivors-iraqi-forces-watched-shiite-militias-executed-72-193441145.htmlMeanwhile, some deranged individual from Daesh threatens the US president.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-obama-cut-off-head-184200336.html

So maybe a US force would be the best solution. Otherwise the next president will have to deal with Daesh.

Fiery Islamic State group cleric gives voice to radicals
http://news.yahoo.com/fiery-islamic-state-group-cleric-gives-voice-radicals-070138919.html
 
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  • #460
Astronuc said:
So maybe a US force would be the best solution.
Then, if Iraqi forces area unable to destroy ISIS, you favor a unilateral US ground force invasion of ISIS held Iraq?
 
  • #461
mheslep said:
Then, if Iraqi forces area unable to destroy ISIS, you favor a unilateral US ground force invasion of ISIS held Iraq?
I favor a European army conscripted from all those countries which invaded and intervened since Sykes/Picot.
 
  • #462
mheslep said:
Then, if Iraqi forces area unable to destroy ISIS, you favor a unilateral US ground force invasion of ISIS held Iraq?
Multinational force from the region would be better.
 
  • #463
TOKYO (AP) — Japan and other nations condemned with outrage and horror on Sunday the beheading purportedly by the Islamic State group of Kenji Goto, a journalist who sought through his coverage of Syria to convey the plight of refugees, children and other victims of war.
http://news.yahoo.com/japan-says-efforts-free-islamic-state-hostage-deadlocked-075801477.html

Peace be upon Kenji Goto.
 
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  • #464
Do these groups realize that all they are doing is turning the entire world against them?
 
  • #465
Yes. They don't want to be loved. They're happy being feared.
 
  • #466
TOKYO (AP) — The Japanese, who inhabit one of the safest countries in the world, have been brutally reminded that the world is a dangerous place.

In a shock to a country that can feel insulated from distant geopolitical problems, two of its own have reportedly been killed by Islamic radicals in Syria, the latest apparently beheaded in a video posted online this weekend by militant websites.
Analysis: The world's problems enter Japan's psyche, again
http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-worlds-problems-enter-japans-psyche-again-075928305.html

This may be a topic for a separate thread, but it's related to the crimes of Daesh against humanity.
 
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  • #467
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31121160#
BBC suggests the Jordanian pilot has been burned alive, IMO a fate worse than beheading.
Even so, BBC puts a positive spin on it, saying it shows how much airstrikes are hurting ISIS.

Edit: BBC have edited their article, toning down the positive spin.
 
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  • #470
Vanadium 50 said:
Yes. They don't want to be loved. They're happy being feared.
There is one flaw in such strategy. For being feared they need firepower a bigger by a few magnitudes. Now I mainly see fury - on a main left wing leaning Polish newspaper in comments complain that we have to many qualms and with great applause people are suggesting rather nasty ways of dealing with ISIS (advices include napalm / white phosphorus / sarin).

Damn, now if Americans asked us for some troops I guess, that there would be no problem with convincing public opinion that we're fighting with evil incarnated and request would be accepted by masses.

It does not look like fear.
 
  • #471
Czcibor said:
Now I mainly see fury - on a main left wing leaning Polish newspaper in comments complain that we have to many qualms and with great applause people are suggesting rather nasty ways of dealing with ISIS (advices include napalm / white phosphorus / sarin).

Damn, now if Americans asked us for some troops I guess, that there would be no problem with convincing public opinion that we're fighting with evil incarnated and request would be accepted by masses.
IMO this is exactly what ISIS wants - European armies crusading in the middle east. IMO, they also want every country in the region, including Jordan, inflamed in war.

Somewhere in Game of Thrones you can read, "Chaos is a ladder."
 
  • #472
Dotini said:
IMO this is exactly what ISIS wants - European armies crusading in the middle east. IMO, they also want every country in the region, including Jordan, inflamed in war.

Somewhere in Game of Thrones you can read, "Chaos is a ladder."

I think that I should rather say to them: "your arrogance blinds you". They try to play a few weight categories above their size. The situation actually allows for our gov great level of flexibility, public opinion would allow war but does not force to it.

EDIT: I think that they reached a threshold of believing in their own propaganda.
 
  • #473
Czcibor said:
Now I mainly see fury - on a main left wing leaning Polish newspaper in comments complain that we have to many qualms and with great applause people are suggesting rather nasty ways of dealing with ISIS

From a 2007 article here in US, recalling our Civil War :
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2007/06/the_hard_hand_of_war.html
Sherman's tactics were brutal. But they worked.

Why did he consider it necessary to inflict hardship on civilians as well as enemy soldiers?

Early in the war, Union commanders, including Sherman, had required Union soldiers to respect the property, lives and even the freedom of Southern civilians in areas occupied by the Union forces. But this worked out badly for the Union army. Armed Southern "civilians" frequently murdered Union soldiers who traveled in small groups or who became separated from their units. Confederate guerrillas sabotaged Union communications behind Union lines.

Commenting on this situation, Sherman wrote,
"We are not only fighting hostile armies, but a hostile people, and we must make old and young, rich and poor, feel the hard hand of war."
The Union forces needed

"to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us...

"We cannot change the hearts and minds of those people of the South, but we can make war so terrible ... [and] make them so sick of war that generations would pass away before they would again appeal to it."
McPherson and other historians believe that Sherman 's tough tactics, however distasteful they may have been, saved hundreds of thousands of lives by bringing the war to an end more quickly than would otherwise have been the case.

What lessons can America learn from Sherman 's March?
When a fly becomes annoying enough somebody will swat it.
It'd be best for all concerned if that were done by the islamic people themselves.my humble opinion
 
  • #474
Czcibor said:
Polish newspaper in comments complain that we have to many qualms and with great applause people are suggesting rather nasty ways of dealing with ISIS (advices include napalm / white phosphorus / sarin).
Does the Polish military have the air capability to deliver such weapons?
 
  • #475
Czcibor said:
EDIT: I think that they reached a threshold of believing in their own propaganda.

I have no doubt that most of them, especially the ones who joined them from other countries, absolutely believe that God is on their side and therefore they cannot lose. From their perspective, it's either victory or martyrdom.

I know that words like barbaric and monstrous have been used too much in discussing Daesh and started to lose their meaning, but burning someone alive is to me a new level of savagery. I cannot think of a worse fate.

I saw the beginning of the burning video by mistake. Someone posted if on my Facebook feed and from the description I thought it's a media report about what happened, not the bloody real thing. By the time I realized it was the actual thing I had already seen too much. It really shook me.

It seems there's a huge sentiment calling for revenge in Jordan. People are demanding the immediate execution of Sajida al-Rishawi, the convicted suicide bomber on death row that Jordan was trying to swap with the late pilot Moaz al-Kasasbeh.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31124166
 
  • #476
HossamCFD said:
I know that words like barbaric and monstrous have been used too much in discussing Daesh and started to lose their meaning, but burning someone alive is to me a new level of savagery. I cannot think of a worse fate.It seems there's a huge sentiment calling for revenge in Jordan. People are demanding the immediate execution of Sajida al-Rishawi, the convicted suicide bomber on death row that Jordan was trying to swap with the late pilot Moaz al-Kasasbeh.

Please allow me to play devil's advocate for just a moment. Of course it is monstrous to burn anyone alive. But the Jordanian pilot could also have burned people alive during his sorties with coalition forces. ISIS is said to have lost 6000 people to recent coalition actions. So ISIS took revenge by burning him in turn. Now the cycle of revenge is continued by calls to execute prisoners. Please explain why burning people alive is okay for the coalition, but not for the enemy? How is the cycle of revenge to be broken? Thank you for indulging a potentially naive question.
 
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  • #477
Dotini said:
Please allow me to play devil's advocate for just a moment. Of course it is monstrous to burn anyone alive. But the Jordanian pilot could also have burned people alive during his sorties with coalition forces. ISIS is said to have lost 6000 people to recent coalition actions. So ISIS took revenge by burning him in turn. Now the cycle of revenge is continued by calls to execute prisoners. Please explain why burning people alive is okay for the coalition, but not for the enemy? How is the cycle of revenge to be broken? Thank you for indulging a potentially naive question.
Captive treatment vs. opening fire to a legitimate target? (in the same way as we would not be specially outraged if this pilot burned to death in case of being hit with heat-seeking missile)
 
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  • #478
I agree with dotini. Jordania replies with death sentence to terrorists. What does it mean? that killing the adversary is autorized! There is only one coherent answer: life sentence in jail!
Many terrorists think that Bin Laden is a martyr who was killed by christians. You know it very well. This is the reason why he has no grave. Death sentence has its own dynamics.
 
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  • #479
naima said:
I agree with dotini. Jordania replies with death sentence to terrorists. What does it mean? that killing the adversary is autorized! There is only one coherent answer: life sentence in jail!
I've heard an idea that Jordanians should learn from Europe. Instead of such barbaric death penalty, they should express their deep concern, while implement a minor asset freeze and visa ban.

;)
 
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  • #480
HossamCFD said:
It seems there's a huge sentiment calling for revenge in Jordan. People are demanding the immediate execution of Sajida al-Rishawi, the convicted suicide bomber on death row that Jordan was trying to swap with the late pilot Moaz al-Kasasbeh.
It didn't take long - Jordan hangs two Iraqi militants in response to pilot's death.
 

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