Is Constant Temperature Required in the Proof of Helmholtz Free Energy?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on whether constant temperature is necessary in the proof of the inequality dw ≤ -dA for isothermal work. Participants argue that the derivation relies on the first law of thermodynamics and the relationship dQ ≤ TdS, suggesting that the result could hold without assuming constant temperature. However, it is pointed out that the differential form of Helmholtz free energy, dA = -SdT - pdV, indicates that if temperature varies, the term -SdT could affect the outcome. Ultimately, the consensus is that the simplification to dA = dU - TdS only applies when temperature remains constant. This highlights the importance of temperature constancy in deriving the Helmholtz free energy relationship.
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Isothermal work = T is constant!
 
yes, but you could get the equation ##dw \leq-dA## without assuming T=constant anywhere?

I mean, from what I can see, all they do is use the 1st law of thermodynamics and the general fact that ##dQ \leq TdS##. So shouldn't the result they get, ie ##dw \leq-dA##, apply regardless if T is constant or not during the whole process?
 
I also don't see why constant temperature should be necessary.
 
Nikitin said:
yes, but you could get the equation ##dw \leq-dA## without assuming T=constant anywhere?

I mean, from what I can see, all they do is use the 1st law of thermodynamics and the general fact that ##dQ \leq TdS##. So shouldn't the result they get, ie ##dw \leq-dA##, apply regardless if T is constant or not during the whole process?

Well, the differential equality for Helmholtz free energy is:

dA = -S dT -p dV = -S dT - dW

It seems to me that if T is not constant, then the term -S dT could be either positive or negative, depending on whether the temperature is increasing or decreasing.
 
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stevendaryl said:
Well, the differential equality for Helmholtz free energy is:

dA = -S dT -p dV = -S dT - dW

It seems to me that if T is not constant, then the term -S dT could be either positive or negative, depending on whether the temperature is increasing or decreasing.

You are right. The point is that in general, dA =dU -dTS. This only reduces to dA=dU-TdS if T is constant.
 
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Ahh, but of course. thank you.
 
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