Is Hillary's Third Place Finish in Iowa a Sign of Trouble for Her Campaign?

[chemisttree]

What tears? Did you watch the video? There were no tears.

I saw it in HD and there were tears.

 

[turbo]

Regardless of the tears, and her admission yesterday that coming in 2nd in NH would be a victory for her campaign, the weaknesses in her campaign are FAR overshadowed by the baggage she would bring to the national election. The Republicans are leaving her alone right now, but if she should get the nomination, she will be relentlessly Swift-boated about Bill's sexual indiscretions and her response to those, Vince Foster's death, billing practices at her former law firm, Whitewater, etc. She already carries the highest negatives with voters of all the Democrats, and if she gets the nomination, the right-wing 527 groups are going to have a field day demonizing her. To be fair, she has given them a LOT of ammunition to work with. She might be capable of doing a great job as President, but IMO she is the least-electable of the top 3 Dems.

 

[Gokul43201]

Bush cried almost exactly a year ago. Can we finally impeach him?

PS: He also cried during his campaign in 2000, I think at least a couple times.

 

[seycyrus]

I think the whole episode was insincere. She was supposedly crying because she was thinking about the direction the country would go If she weren't elected? Cmon! Give me a break!

 

[chemisttree]

Bush cried almost exactly a year ago. Can we finally impeach him?

PS: He also cried during his campaign in 2000, I think at least a couple times.

Are you trying to make my point?

But seriously, he cried while honoring a fallen marine who fell on a grenade to save his comrades. Bush is a military man after all...

Regarding the 2000 episode, I'm sure those were manly tears as well.

 

[chemisttree]

Regardless of the tears, and her admission yesterday that coming in 2nd in NH would be a victory for her campaign, the weaknesses in her campaign are FAR overshadowed by the baggage she would bring to the national election. The Republicans are leaving her alone right now, but if she should get the nomination, she will be relentlessly Swift-boated about Bill's sexual indiscretions and her response to those, Vince Foster's death, billing practices at her former law firm, Whitewater, etc. She already carries the highest negatives with voters of all the Democrats, and if she gets the nomination, the right-wing 527 groups are going to have a field day demonizing her. To be fair, she has given them a LOT of ammunition to work with. She might be capable of doing a great job as President, but IMO she is the least-electable of the top 3 Dems.

This is about as succinct as it gets. I think she would be an easy target and quite beatable.

I think her strategy will mirror Guiliani's in the coming weeks. That is... it ain't over until after super tuesday. She is still a formidible candidate in the Democrat primaries.

 

[Gokul43201]

Are you trying to make my point?

But seriously, he cried while honoring a fallen marine who fell on a grenade to save his comrades.

I think we're both finding it hard to tell when the other person is making a joke.

Bush is a military man after all...

See what I mean?

Regarding the 2000 episode, I'm sure those were manly tears as well.

Damn! If only Hillary had manly tears too...

 

[chemisttree]

By his own admission, he says that he cries almost every day.

What is somewhat amusing is that Hillary's episode was triggered when she answered the following question from one of her (adoring?) fans, ""How did you get out the door every day? I mean, as a woman, I know how hard it is to get out of the house and get ready. Who does your hair?"

OH GOD, NO! NOT THE HAIR QUESTION!

 

[mheslep]

Bush is a military man after all...

I think we're both finding it hard to tell when the other person is making a joke.

See what I mean?

He showed up enough to qualify in his jet. How many military fighter jets are you qualified to fly?

 

[chemisttree]

I heard that Hillary cried again today.

From NBC's Lauren Appelbaum
Clinton lost her voice pretty badly while at a roundtable in New Haven, CT. She asked for a lozenge and water, and after a minute, she tried to answer a question on health care. She got one short sentence out, and then breathlessly said, "This comes and goes."

A nurse then talked for six minutes, giving Clinton a chance to regain use of her voice. About eight minutes after losing her voice, Clinton began to get her voice back (but still was scratchy).

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/04/635538.aspx

And it wasn't hair-related! Why report this at all? Oh yeah, she's slipping in California (and may actually lose) and is now literally neck and neck with Obama in the national polls.

Time for the media to put on the lipstick again...

Oh yes, here is an alternate version of the event.

Hillary Clinton cries in Connecticut
by Jason George

NEW HAVEN, Conn. – Sen. Hillary Clinton teared up this morning at an event at the Yale Child Study Center, where she worked while in law school in the early 1970s.
...
"Well, I said I would not tear up; already we're not exactly on the path," Clinton said with emotion after the introduction.

Clinton is holding a roundtable discussion with Connecticut women to talk about childcare and healthcare.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/clinton_crys_in_connecticut.html

 

[hserse]

To everyone here:

I have questions concerning your selection for presidential candidate. Please forgive me if I sound like a bigot; however, does any see gender and race as factor (may be minor, if not major) in your selection of candidate. Do you believe gender stand above race or vice versa (another words, should a white lady be in the WHITE House before allowing a black man)? Lastly, from your opinion has America transcend above the bigotry and racial divide.

Of course, the reason I ask this is because I want to have a sense of understanding from an intellectul community. However, let me lay down my thoughts to you and maybe you could understand where I'm coming from. First of all, I have a contradictory feelings from most experts (news media..etc). From the media, you hear (or atleast) America has transcend above racial and gender divide; inaddition, you also hear from the candidates implying he/she see America that looks above race and gender in this election. However, I still feel otherwise. Many may disagree with me and cast me as an outsider because I don't have optimism towards the future of America. Quite the contrary, I hope America will choose the right leader this time.
You know I have HOPE like Obama and hope for Obama to be in the White House; however, there's an underlying sense that tells me Hillary will be in there or the other candidate from the Republican side. Those underlying sense could not be explain and may not be easily understood unless one's has experienced it. I sincerely hope my underlying sense would be wrong and people will elect the one with WISDOM to lead and look toward the future of America.
I would like to thank you for taking your time to answer my questions.

With our knowledge, may we elect the wiser leader for a change..

 

[Astronuc]

I heard that Hillary cried again today.

Sen. Hillary Clinton teared up this morning at an event at the Yale Child Study Center, where she worked while in law school in the early 1970s.

"Well, I said I would not tear up; already we're not exactly on the path," Clinton said with emotion

Not exactly crying. More like a strong emotional response because she cares about children, education, families. At least she's sincerely concerned about those issue unlike the bozo currently occupying the Whitehouse.


As for Bush being a military man - . Bush qualified in an F-102 when the latest jet was the F4 or F-104. That ensured he wouldn't go to Nam. IIRC, he was in the Air National Guard, and then left to help in a political campaign. Bush dishonors the real vets.

 

[Astronuc]

I have questions concerning your selection for presidential candidate. Please forgive me if I sound like a bigot; however, does any see gender and race as factor (may be minor, if not major) in your selection of candidate. Do you believe gender stand above race or vice versa (another words, should a white lady be in the WHITE House before allowing a black man)? Lastly, from your opinion has America transcend above the bigotry and racial divide.

Race and gender have nothing to do with whom I prefer in office in my case. I consider the person, the character, the ideas, the ability to articulate ideas, among other attributes.

There is a persistent level of racism and chauvinism in the US, and for that matter in most countries and cultures.

 

[mheslep]

As for Bush being a military man - . Bush qualified in an F-102 when the latest jet was the F4 or F-104. That ensured he wouldn't go to Nam. IIRC, he was in the Air National Guard, and then left to help in a political campaign. Bush dishonors the real vets.

This point is unclear. Anyone who worked in politics instead of going to VN dishonors 'real' vets?(Clintons) All Air Guard members dishonor vets? All F-102 pilots dishonor vets? Perhaps anyone who never saw combat dishonors vets?

 

[Contrapositive]

another words, should a white lady be in the WHITE House before allowing a black man

I don't think one should be allowed before the other, obviously. But I suspect we will see a black man in office before a women. Simply because I feel there is more prejudice in the world against sex, than race. For example, black men got the right to vote 50 years before women.

Lastly, from your opinion has America transcend above the bigotry and racial divide.

Of course not. Everyone, even good men, are bigots to a degree.

 

[mheslep]

Not exactly crying. More like a strong emotional response because she cares about children, education, families. At least she's sincerely concerned about those issue unlike the bozo currently occupying the Whitehouse.

It baffles me how one can deduce that a politician 'cares' about children by their desire to spend large sums of other peoples money - especially one like Sen. Clinton who stomps on school choice initiatives and then sends her daughter off to the most exclusive private school in Washington, DC.

 

[chemisttree]

Not exactly crying. More like a strong emotional response because she cares about children, education, families. At least she's sincerely concerned about those issue unlike the bozo currently occupying the Whitehouse.

She teared up because she was being introduced to the group in a very flattering way. She was there because she cares about children, education, families. I think she lost her voice because she is fighting a cold and she was emotional (after being flattered).

 

[seycyrus]

It baffles me how one can deduce that a politician 'cares' about children by their desire to spend large sums of other peoples money - especially one like Sen. Clinton who stomps on school choice initiatives and then sends her daughter off to the most exclusive private school in Washington, DC.

We can deduce it because she cried! :)

She cried because she cares, and she cares because she cried ...

I have to admit she is better at pretending to cry, than she is at pretending to laugh.

 

[W3pcq]

I don't like Hillary, but Her Husband was probably one of our greatest economic presidents. I think her mandated health care plan is bull. She doesn't have much of an explanation of how it will be paid for. Could be a plan to make more money for insurance companies.

If Obama isn't clear enough on how he plans to try and make change, then you are not very clear in your perception or have been ignoring him. He has announce to rool back the Bush Tax cuts for the 1% of our richest citizens. He wants to expose the workings of Health care interests on CSPAN so that we will hear more.

I am not entirely sure on either candidate with respect to illegal aliens. I know that they need to say what they need to say to get votes, but I am unsure on these issues.

Hillary is ready to lead, but that means absolutely nothing because all of the candidates are ready to lead that's why they are running for president.

Obama has shown a better ability to lead based on what I have seen.

What will happen when Hillary is having PMS and her husband is off with some other chick and she is under pressure to push or not push the red button?

 

[hserse]

"What will happen when Hillary is having PMS and her husband is off with some other chick and she is under pressure to push or not push the red button?" W3pcq

You know it’s a legit point; of course, a little bit extreme (quite insensitive). However, I don’t know much about female biological system. Does she still have PMS at this age (60, correct me if I wrong).

Honestly, I use to like the Clinton during her spousal’s eight years in Office. I don’t know much about Hillary Clinton, only to know she has the ability to stick by the man who cheated on her [of course, this indicates how determine towards her goal to whatever extent]. I have always liked the Clinton, especially comparable to (2nd) Bush administration. I still like her even when she ran for the Senate in New York. However, I realize something recently since her campaign for Presidential candidate. I realize she’s an absolute determine woman on achieving her goal and she will do anything and will stop at nothing to achieve those goal. Of course, many will say what is wrong with having a determine goal, I say nothing is wrong with a dream and personal goals. However, the issue that crops up would be of concern is to what level of honesty, truthfulness, fairness, and morality, etc. However, a disclaimer, this is only my opinion and my perception of her and some of the other politicians. Other people may have different level of human indifference and intolerance.

There’s no doubt, she’s a very intelligent candidate, excellent debater, and dedicated politician (some may viewed as experienced). She also a very skillful (in my opinion I lean towards the word crafty) in many of her debates for she has skill and great understanding in human psychology. Furthermore, I have no doubts she’s compassionate in many positive things she did during her time at Wal Mart, White House, and in the Senate and into the future. I believe, through thick and thin she has endured from the college years and her life with Bill (womanizer) and able to continually achieve her goal-not too many women can do that. It’s awe inspiring; however, on the other hand, one can imagine what she must have been doing something to achieve these goals. I leave up to your imagination. It is not up to me imply something in the past and things that I don’t have an understanding of. However, I will pinpoint some thing that she did recently that is considered low level of dignity, honesty, trustworthy, and fairness.
1. Teary emotional outburst – Many will make the argument that it is compassionate and sincere emotion. Her compassion to this campaign for children, healthcare, soldiers dying (you’ll be judge about this one), etc… It is legit to have emotional outbreak especially in women. However, when emotion is mixed with the intent to derail the another opponent, personally, it is unacceptable. The true nature of human psychology, when you’re in state of emotional distress, it’s hard to be in contempt of another human being because the insecurity you have within yourself. However, in Clinton case she has the ability to tear-up and at the same time indirectly exposing the negative imagery of Obama. The only conclusion, she’s playing to the audience (mainly women) who are gullible. However, from my experience with women emotions, when they become emotional, they are angry, sad, or silent. They are honest and truthful in their emotion whether positive or negative.
Furthermore, she has endure so much (only my presumption) in the past, especially during Bill misadventure with women and she handled pretty well. Why now, just loosing one state (IOWA) out of 50. Again, if she made an emotional plea or well up like she did recently prior to Super Tuesday. It would be more understandable, it’s genuine, maybe. To some it might be nothing. However, one has to remember we want someone who has the highest level of dignity, honesty, and trustworthy to be seated in the White House. Then again, we’re talking about politicians.

2. Using Bill as Hound dog, to be a former President of greatest nation in the world and to be prestigiously, award for many humanitarian aide around the world and now he’s being used in a political game. There’s nothing wrong with supporting your spouse; however, when you go and intentionally make false and inaccurate statements, it is somewhat like hitting below the belt when the referee looks the other way. How would he be able to represent the US causes? It just doesn’t look bad on Bill or our politicians, but on our nation as well. Well, in the state which America’s in there’s nothing that Clintons do would be as bad!

3. By nature, I think Hillary is very crafty. Again, this is my personal perception only. Listen to her debate, where’s she arguing about her vote to use military force. She doesn’t admit her failure, but rather use her crafty argument against what is undeniable. It’s like Mitt Romney trying to explain that he “SAW” his father was marching with MLKJ. Listen to her explaining her switching position on driver license. It took her months to change position because it controversial in her state; yet, she comes back with a smooth turnaround on Obama for his difficulty trying to explain his position with only 2 or 3 minutes delay (that because host doesn’t allow him to explain his DL positioning ).

These are some of the highlights which seem obvious, some are not so obvious unless you thoroughly followed through the debate. One could argue, it just a political game. Are we living in “dog eat dog,” if it is, yes we can go down to that level, but once we are down in that level it could never comeback it will remain the standard of our dignity, truthfulness, trustworthiness and fairness in everything we all do.
Again, I’m not bias against women. This is my view, and I don’t expect anyone to adhere to this view. But I only ask you to step outside the box of the underlying prejudice (gender, race, etc.) and look at these candidates very carefully every words coming from their mouth. People say “vote with your guts”, PLEASE DON'T rather please “vote with you brain.” You are in an informational age; all the information is at your disposal. Transcend above the boundary that limits us in the past and look toward the future with wisdom.

 

[Astronuc]

I don't like Hillary, but Her Husband was probably one of our greatest economic presidents. I think her mandated health care plan is bull. She doesn't have much of an explanation of how it will be paid for. Could be a plan to make more money for insurance companies.

I'd strongly disagree that Bill Clinton was "one of the greatest economic presidents'. Alan Greenspan said it correctly - "irrational exhuberance." Clinton gets some undeserved credit, and George Bush inherited the economy already in downturn.

 

[Gokul43201]

Greenspan does, however, refer to Nixon and Clinton (in his book, The Age of Turbulence) as the smartest presidents he has worked with.

Greenspan praised former President Clinton and his attitude toward economic policies, saying, "either Clinton shared many of my views on the way the economic system was evolving and on what should be done, or he was the cleverest chameleon I'd ever encountered."

"Clinton was often criticized for inconsistency and for a tendency to take all sides in a debate, but that was never true about his economic policy," he wrote. "A consistent, disciplined focus on long-term economic growth became a hallmark of his presidency."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/16/greenspan.book/

 

[Evo]

BBC America had an interview with Ted Koppel tonight that really made a point. When asked if a female or Black American President would be a huge milestone for America, Koppel answered, - just the fact that a female or a black were going to win the Democratic party was a huge milestone.

 

[chemisttree]

Greenspan does, however, refer to Nixon and Clinton (in his book, The Age of Turbulence) as the smartest presidents he has worked with.



http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/09/16/greenspan.book/

What programs did Bill Clinton propose or what bills did he sign that would justify Greenspan's comment, "A consistent, disciplined focus on long-term economic growth became a hallmark of his presidency." ?

Most of the positive economic programs that Clinton signed into law were placed there by the Republican controlled House and Senate. He raised the top income tax rates in '93 to 39.6% when the Democrats controlled the House and then in 1997 signed a bill lowering taxes when the Republicans controlled the House.

 

[chemisttree]

Hillary and Obama are even in Texas according to a Washington Post-ABC News Poll which has the race at 48% Clinton and 47% Obama. Perhaps the Texas Republican voters will get to decide the Democrat candidate after all!

Hillary has got to get over the plagiarism thing! Did one of her advisors actually think that this has any traction? It could be indicative of the level of expertise she currently has available on her staff.

 

[Art]

A key part of Hillary's campaign is her claim to have far more experience than Obama particularly in foreign affairs. The centre piece of which is Hillary's claim to have been a principal player in the N Ireland negotiations. David Trimble lead negotiator, head of the Ulster Unionists and the first First Minister of the province disagrees.

Hillary Clinton had no direct role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland and is a "wee bit silly" for exaggerating the part she played, according to Lord Trimble of Lisnagarvey, the Nobel Peace Prize winner and former First Minister of the province.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/08/wuspols108.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox

She reminds me of R. Kipling's Tomlinson's Ghost with all her so-called experience being at best second hand.

And Tomlinson took up the tale and spoke of his good in life.
"O this I have read in a book," he said, "and that was told to me,
"And this I have thought that another man thought of a Prince in Muscovy."
The good souls flocked like homing doves and bade him clear the path,
And Peter twirled the jangling Keys in weariness and wrath.
"Ye have read, ye have heard, ye have thought," he said, "and the tale is yet to run:
"By the worth of the body that once ye had, give answer—what ha' ye done?"
Then Tomlinson looked back and forth, and little good it bore,
For the darkness stayed at his shoulder-blade and Heaven's Gate before:—
"O this I have felt, and this I have guessed, and this I heard men say,
"And this they wrote that another man wrote of a carl in Norroway."
"Ye have read, ye have felt, ye have guessed, good lack! Ye have hampered Heaven's Gate;
"There's little room between the stars in idleness to prate!
"For none may reach by hired speech of neighbour, priest, and kin
Through borrowed deed to God's good meed that lies so fair within;

http://www.sff.net/people/DoyleMacdonald/l_tomlin.htm Someone should ask her in an interview if she is familiar with this poem

 

[BobG]

She reminds me of R. Kipling's Tomlinson's Ghost with all her so-called experience being at best second hand. http://www.sff.net/people/DoyleMacdonald/l_tomlin.htm Someone should ask her in an interview if she is familiar with this poem

Good poem. Nice to know, that whatever kind of life you've lead, you won't be bothered by politicians in the after-life.