Is Internal Energy Always Constant in Thermodynamic Systems?

AI Thread Summary
The internal energy of a thermodynamic system is not always constant; it can change based on work done and heat exchanged. When work is done on the system, it may need to absorb heat to maintain constant internal energy, while doing work on the surroundings typically results in heat release. Adiabatic processes, which occur without heat exchange, can lead to changes in internal energy, such as temperature increases during compression. The discussion highlights the confusion surrounding the conventions of work and energy in physics versus chemistry, emphasizing that real processes are neither completely adiabatic nor reversible. Understanding these concepts is crucial for grasping the complexities of thermodynamics.
Inertigratus
Messages
123
Reaction score
0
So, is the internal energy of a system always constant?
I mean, if work done on the system is negative by convention.
dU = dQ - pdV
Then if work is done on the system, does that mean that it has to absorb heat to keep the internal energy constant? and if the system does work, it has to release heat?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
If the system is adiabatic it won't be able to release, absorb heat, and then the internal energy will not be constant. That is, if you compress(give work) to an adiabatic system it will increase U and it will get hotter.
And I think you got it backwards, if the system does work it needs to absorb heat to maintain U and if it receives work it must release heat.
 
Right, actually I think the convention confuses me a little. If the system does work, would that change the minus into a plus (since it's positive)?
Or is it, dU = dQ - (-pdV) if work is done on the system, and dU = dQ - pdV if the system does work?
Another small question, how can an adiabatic process be reversible (isentropic)?
I mean, for a process to be reversible it has to happen in infinitely small steps, so that the system enters thermodynamic equillibrium in each step, right?
But for an adiabatic process, it happens in one big jump, so how can it be reversible?
 
I'm not a thermo master or anything but let's see
You don't need to do it in one big jump, yes when you do it fast it's adiabatic because there will be no time to exchange heat with the surroundings but if you use an insulating container you will also not exchange heat and it will be adiabatic, in an ideal situation of course.
Real processes are neither completely adiabatic nor reversible.



About the convention, in physics it's normally dW= PdV, without the minus.
And dU= dQ - dW
So when the system does work on the surrounding,expands , that is final volume is bigger than initial volume, the integral is positive. W is positive.
So -dW is negative, the system loses internal energy.

In chemistry, physical chemistry, chemical engineering...it's backwards.
Yes, it's confusing, hope I explained it right.
 
Oh right, so isentropic processes ideally occur only in isolated systems then?
I understand now, not used to the thinking in thermo yet.
Thanks!
 
Thermo is kinda complex, since it's not based on simple laws like mechanics that work on every situation
 
Thread 'Question about pressure of a liquid'
I am looking at pressure in liquids and I am testing my idea. The vertical tube is 100m, the contraption is filled with water. The vertical tube is very thin(maybe 1mm^2 cross section). The area of the base is ~100m^2. Will he top half be launched in the air if suddenly it cracked?- assuming its light enough. I want to test my idea that if I had a thin long ruber tube that I lifted up, then the pressure at "red lines" will be high and that the $force = pressure * area$ would be massive...
I feel it should be solvable we just need to find a perfect pattern, and there will be a general pattern since the forces acting are based on a single function, so..... you can't actually say it is unsolvable right? Cause imaging 3 bodies actually existed somwhere in this universe then nature isn't gonna wait till we predict it! And yea I have checked in many places that tiny changes cause large changes so it becomes chaos........ but still I just can't accept that it is impossible to solve...
Back
Top