Is John Edward Genuine?

[Hanfonius]

Over the years, I have seen many so-called mediums on the TV. They claim to be able to talk to the dead, and there are millions of people who believe that they have received communications from the other side.

Many are convincing - at first, others are quite obviously total frauds.

There is one, however, who for me suggests that perhaps he does have 'something' - John Edward. Unusually, he appears not to work and develop on his subject's body language, or vocal feedback. He gives the impression that he knows he is correct when he makes statements allegedly from the beyond. Some of his statements are quite outrageous and most unlikely to work in with coincidence. For example, he might say, "This person was shot in the shoulder, and passed over two weeks later." A fraudster might have said, "He tells me that he died unexpectantly. Is that right?"


I would appreciate any feedback you might have on this guy. I know that he has declined to appear on TV for scientific evaluation with Randy (forgotten his second name). He has said that his readings over the years are sufficient validation for what he does.

Thanks.

 

[waht]

I'm not familiar this this guy, but all of these mediums are tricks based on suggestibility, hypnosis, and NLP (neuro linguistic programming). Someone just needs to have a good emotional intelligence to implement these techniques well.

 

[Hanfonius]

Perhaps I should have added that John Edward heads an American TV program called 'Crossing Over.' It is a very successful program that has been running for about ten years now, and is syndicated throughout the world (via Sky for us).

He travels throughout the States, and his voice suggests that he is of Irish descent. He is a very fast talker, and works quite comfortably even when the recipient doesn't say a word. Some of his sessions are done with complete strangers over the telephone, or hidden behind a curtain where he cannot see them.

If I didn't know better, I would have to say that he is either genuine or a mind-reader. The trouble with the latter is that the sitter often has to think back in their memories to find the associations, so it probably isn't that.

 

[waht]

Here is a short youtube NLP demo done by Derren Brown showing how you can influence someones thoughts over the phone. Listen carefully to his every word as it is meant to influence you.

 

[mgb_phys]

These performers have teams of researchers looking into the background of their 'randomly chosen' sitter. They also had people chatting to the sitters before the show 'just to reassure them'.

 

[Hanfonius]

These performers have teams of researchers looking into the background of their 'randomly chosen' sitter. They also had people chatting to the sitters before the show 'just to reassure them'.

Yes, I am quite sure that this happens. Also the very careful monitoring of the audience as they are waiting to go into the studio: 'I hope Aunty Agnes comes through', and 'Wont Uncle Herbert be suprised if Aunty Mavis turns up.'

John Edward is the head of a huge corporation. They can afford to hire detectives, and surveillance equipment.

Perhaps because it is such a slick operation, he is able to persuade guillable people such as myself that there maybe is such a thing as a conduit through to an afterlife. There again, I am one of the doubters - there are millions who believe him totally.

 

[Hanfonius]

Here is a short youtube NLP demo done by Derren Brown showing how you can influence someones thoughts over the phone. Listen carefully to his every word as it is meant to influence you.

Duh! I still don't know how he did that. Worse still, I have read Derren Brown's book.

As a matter of interest, did you pick up the 'instruction' to write down bicycle?

 

[Gokul43201]

Cold reading + Editing

http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-04/042106edward.html#i1 [Broken]
http://www.skepticreport.com/psychicpowers/jeblues.htm [Broken]
http://www.csicop.org/si/2003-09/seeing-dead-people.html [Broken]

 

[waht]

As a matter of interest, did you pick up the 'instruction' to write down bicycle?

No because you would have to actually engage in conversation with someone doing the trick. Perhaps if someone is very suggestible could be influenced by this clip to write the word "bicycle."

Duh! I still don't know how he did that. Worse still, I have read Derren Brown's book.

It's simple, but depends heavily on subjects being suggestible. If you listen to his dialogue, Derren says he is a "cyclological illusionist,"

"I will be asking you to do three things" - three

"write a word in your mind on a big chalkboard" - makes you feel like you in an elementary school.

"say the word over and over again" - could suggest something spinning

"try to do the whole think without thinking about it" - makes you feel free

"three different cogs going around in you mind" - clearly makes you think of spinning wheels

"imagine you are six years old back in elementary school" - it anchors the cogs he set up with feeling free again

 

[Hanfonius]

Cold reading + Editing

http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-04/042106edward.html#i1 [Broken]
http://www.skepticreport.com/psychicpowers/jeblues.htm [Broken]
http://www.csicop.org/si/2003-09/seeing-dead-people.html [Broken]

Whew! Having read through these references, I no longer harbour any doubts. It is all cold reading, with some practitioners more clever than others.

I still believe John Edward to be the slickest of them all, but fraudulent anyway.

Perhaps in another forum, we should ask if what they are doing is ethically wrong. Should they be offering council and false hope to bereaving members of families?

 

[Hanfonius]

As a small postscript to this topic...
I mentioned to my wife that we have been talking about whether John Edward is an authentic medium, and the general consus of opinion is that he is not.

My wife said, "I don't want to know."
She enjoys the show so much, and does not want to be disappointed.

We are neither bereaving nor particularly religious.

Human nature is a strange thing...

 

[LightbulbSun]

Here is a short youtube NLP demo done by Derren Brown showing how you can influence someones thoughts over the phone. Listen carefully to his every word as it is meant to influence you.

Why were they so impressed? I knew how he did it. He suggested that image to Joe by having him think back to his childhood days. Did these people fall asleep or something when he mentioned that?

 

[mgb_phys]

Listen carefully to his every word as it is meant to influence you.

<zombie voice> I did - I think Darren Brown is amazing... must buy his books ...</zombie voice>

Perhaps in another forum, we should ask if what they are doing is ethically wrong.

Lawsuits will probably take care of it.
Stage hypnotism is now banned in most theatres. Somebody claimed that a hypnotist taking them back to their childhood brought back 'hidden memories' of abuse. Since the abuser was long dead / didn't have any money, they sued the venue instead. Now most theatre's insurance policies don't allow hypnotism.

 

[statdad]

No, he's simply an evil person who preys on the sorrow of families and individuals. His process is an old stage trick - a fancy form of 20 questions, that has been used by people from performers in Vegas to the Amazing Kreskan.
As noted above, people have detected his agents moving through crowds, prior to shows, gathering information from people whom he later "randomly" selects.
Finally, his "hit" rate, for questions, even for the people he selects, is far at or slightly below the rate for simply guessing.
There is no more touch with supernatural here than there was in the 1800s when seances and crystal balls were the rage - just slick operators taking advantage of others.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I agree with everything said, but there is one interesting twist to this. What of those whom he helps? Clearly he does make people happy.

If Edwards consoles a grieving mother by convincing her that her son didn't suffer when he died, can it be argued that Edwards provides a valuable service?

Could it be that mysticism is an essential aspect of mental health, for some?

 

[statdad]

So lying to people who are in grief is ok? I don't buy it, and I don't believe Edwards' goal is to console, but only to fatten his wallet.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

So lying to people who are in grief is ok? I don't buy it, and I don't believe Edwards' goal is to console, but only to fatten his wallet.

I'm not asking if lying is okay. I am asking if he provides a valuable service when he provides comfort to people who have suffered a loss.

 

[LightbulbSun]

I'm not asking if lying is okay. I am asking if he provides a valuable service when he provides comfort to people who have suffered a loss.

No, he's not. Anyone can say something that's comforting to make someone grieving feel better. It doesn't require you to fork over money as in the case of John Edward either.

 

[waht]

If Edwards consoles a grieving mother by convincing her that her son didn't suffer when he died, can it be argued that Edwards provides a valuable service?

Help is available in form of shrinks, therapists, and even hypnotherapists. But if you are gong to provide a service by faking something as talking do the dead, I would make sure to put this in the contract.

Could it be that mysticism is an essential aspect of mental health, for some?

I suspect it is. Once a person accepts some arbitrary mysticism it will eventually get tied to the body chemistry given enough time. The attachment could be in forms of anchors, meaning that something small such as a gesture or a thought in something could trigger an emotional state. An example of such anchoring is a prayer. After saying the prayer, the person might come out in a different emotional state, usually more at peace.

 

[statdad]

"I'm not asking if lying is okay. I am asking if he provides a valuable service when he provides comfort to people who have suffered a loss."

I would have to answer no - I can't see how providing something that is totally baseless, a lie, in fact, can or should be considered to be comfort. My answer would not change even if money were not charged for the service; charging fees for sessions is adding insult to the fraud.

 

[bassplayer142]

I don't think the people who believe him are being damaged by it. They are being mislead if the guy is false. But...

Ignorance is Bliss

 

[Hanfonius]

I am reading these responses as to whether John Edward provides a 'service' to the bereaved: the mother who has lost her son in a terrible accident is assured that he didn't suffer, and that he is happy where he is.

If she believes in the afterlife, then she may well be consoled. In this instance, then John Edward has indeed provided a service.

Is this question any different than trying to justify a medic giving out placebo drugs? Somebody dying from a terminal disease must gain some comfort from taking the little pink pills that might/will help them. (I am not talking about pain killers here).

How about the clinical trials where half of the patients are given drugs that may well help them, but the other half are given placebos. I understand the need to do this, but the poor people on the dummy pills seem to be getting a raw deal..?

 

[CEL]

I am reading these responses as to whether John Edward provides a 'service' to the bereaved: the mother who has lost her son in a terrible accident is assured that he didn't suffer, and that he is happy where he is.

If she believes in the afterlife, then she may well be consoled. In this instance, then John Edward has indeed provided a service.

Is this question any different than trying to justify a medic giving out placebo drugs? Somebody dying from a terminal disease must gain some comfort from taking the little pink pills that might/will help them. (I am not talking about pain killers here).

How about the clinical trials where half of the patients are given drugs that may well help them, but the other half are given placebos. I understand the need to do this, but the poor people on the dummy pills seem to be getting a raw deal..?

Honest doctors don't give placebos to their patients.
If someone agrees to partcipate in a study group, he is warned that he can be assigned either to the test group (the one receiving the therapy to be tested) or to the control group (the one receiving a placebo or an already proved therapy).
By the way, since you said that you and your wife follow John Edward presentations, I suggest you to print the bingo card http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2007/11/john-edward-jam.html, and see how many hits you have in the next show.

 

[LightbulbSun]

.
By the way, since you said that you and your wife follow John Edward presentations, I suggest you to print the bingo card http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2007/11/john-edward-jam.html, and see how many hits you have in the next show.

:rofl: Those bingo cards are brilliant.

 

[Hanfonius]

Honest doctors don't give placebos to their patients.QUOTE]

My mistake. I thought all doctors would prescribe placebos if they thought they would help their patients. When doctors prescribe antibiotics for patients suffering from a cold, could that not be construed to be a placebo? Many patients do ask for antibiotics, but as everybody knows, they cannot touch a virus.
I concur with your mention that patients in clinical trials are advised in advance.

The Bingo-type card for John Edward is well worth reading and studying..! Thankyou. Incidentally, since this topic started, I shall not be wasting my time watching his TV shows; I've been converted. I am now a born-again thinker.
... Mind you, I'll never be able to get my old lady away from the box!

 

[mgb_phys]

When doctors prescribe antibiotics for patients suffering from a cold, could that not be construed to be a placebo? Many patients do ask for antibiotics, but as everybody knows, they cannot touch a virus.

No a placebo is a harmless compound with no theraputic role - antibiotics are far from harmless and contribute to all those wonderfully evolved antibiotic resistant bacteria that now live in our hospitals. An even worse one is handing out prescriptions for paracetemol /acetaminophen to everyone that gets free prescriptions, so that every senior citizen has 100x the lethal dose sitting in their bathroom cabinets - while at the same time restricting the number you can buy over the counter.

Many doctors would love to be able to prescribe vitamin C tablets or sugar pills instead but aren't allowed to - at least in the UK.

 

[CEL]

No a placebo is a harmless compound with no theraputic role - antibiotics are far from harmless and contribute to all those wonderfully evolved antibiotic resistant bacteria that now live in our hospitals. An even worse one is handing out prescriptions for paracetemol /acetaminophen to everyone that gets free prescriptions, so that every senior citizen has 100x the lethal dose sitting in their bathroom cabinets - while at the same time restricting the number you can buy over the counter.

Many doctors would love to be able to prescribe vitamin C tablets or sugar pills instead but aren't allowed to - at least in the UK.

Except for homeopathic preparations: distilled water and sugar pills. But when I mentioned honest doctors I obviously excluded homeopaths.
I misused the word honest. Most homeopaths are honestly deluded people.

 

[Hanfonius]

Except for homeopathic preparations: distilled water and sugar pills. But when I mentioned honest doctors I obviously excluded homeopaths.
I misused the word honest. Most homeopaths are honestly deluded people.

... and folk medicine, herbal medicine, diet fads, faith healing, new age healing, chiropractic, acupuncture, naturopathy, massage, reflexology and music therapy.

There are people who are so desperate that they will turn to any of these alternative methods, and it is sad that they somehow lose confidence in traditional and proven methods. Psychic surgery, for example, would never be entertained in most enlightened societies, but there are still the believers. When our royal family advocate their trust in homeopathy, it must be distressing to our medical fraternity..?

 

[statdad]

There is no doubt that the over prescription of antibiotics is a problem, but they are used (again, often used too often) because they work.

"Many doctors would love to be able to prescribe vitamin C tablets or sugar pills instead but aren't allowed to - at least in the UK."
That's because these don't do anything, just as (noted elsewhere) homeopathy, faith healing, etc, don't.

 

[mgb_phys]

That's because these don't do anything, just as (noted elsewhere) homeopathy, faith healing, etc, don't.

Thats their advantage, the problem is a generation that have get used to the idea that unless they come away from the doctors with a bottle of pills they aren't getting the proper treatment they are entitled to.
At the moment they are normally prescribed dangerous pain killers or worse than useless antibiotics.

 

[russ_watters]

I'm not asking if lying is okay. I am asking if he provides a valuable service when he provides comfort to people who have suffered a loss.

I rather suspect that a psychologist would not consider self-delusion to be a reasonable technique for dealing with loss.

And whether or not you are deling with the question of fraud, the issue doesn't go away. It's still fraud to charge money for a service you are not providing. That said, I think that the fact that the victims are dual victims is worse than the fraud itself.

 

[truelies]

I would so love there to be an afterlife or a god or just to know we go on to another existence in some shape or form no one wants to think they just turn to ashes and the whole memory and experience we have with loved ones just goes to complete darkness, but for alsong as time began man asked this question or belief in a higher power but got no answer (not without a reasonable doubt PROOF) or to see the light so to speak so the answer is already there NO PROOF NO ANSWER = NO GOD NO AFTERLIFE NO FUTURE EXISTENCE. we basically are born to eat **** and die! oh for those still living we have pain and death to look forward to what a wonderful climax to a miserable existence...
Characters like Edward who exploit people's grief to line their own pockets are
the lowest of the low, barely one step above medical quacks and charlatons. and if you truly believe in your heart for this to be any different then you are completely and truly diluded and beyond help you might as well also believe in the tooth fairy & santa claus.
sorry to sounds so doom and gloom but is best for people to know the truth however painful and disturbing this maybe to there beliefs and outlook on life or afterlife of which there is not plain and simple.

 

[truelies]

I totally agree with you! Characters like Edward who exploit people's grief to line their own pockets are the lowest of the low, barely one step above medical quacks and charlatons. and if you truly believe in your heart for this to be any different then you are completely and truly diluded and beyond help you might as well also believe in the tooth fairy & santa claus.

 

[truelies]

I am reading these responses as to whether John Edward provides a 'service' to the bereaved: the mother who has lost her son in a terrible accident is assured that he didn't suffer, and that he is happy where he is.

If she believes in the afterlife, then she may well be consoled. In this instance, then John Edward has indeed provided a service.

It is in no way good at all to tell these people lies or con them or give them false hope it is the lowest of the low, people deserve the truth however painful this maybe there are far too many diluded people in the world beliving in things they cannot see, science has provided lots of facts to people which were misguided, in denial or ignorant to the truth.

 

[JaredJames]

This thread has been dead for two and a half years. There is a newer thread on John Edward here somewhere.