Is Love Truly Real? Perspectives from Science and Society

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The discussion centers around the question of whether love is real, with participants expressing diverse viewpoints. Some argue that love is a genuine and evolving emotion, shaped by individual experiences and relationships, suggesting that each new love redefines the concept. Others contend that love is merely a chemical reaction in the brain, equating it to other biological urges and questioning its significance beyond a hormonal response. The conversation also touches on the distinction between love and lust, with some participants emphasizing that while both are real, they serve different purposes and elicit different behaviors. The idea that love can be defined as a strong affection that encompasses care, commitment, and mutual respect is presented, contrasting with views that dismiss romantic love as a societal construct or illusion. Ultimately, the debate reflects a complex interplay of emotional, biological, and philosophical perspectives on the nature of love.
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"Do you feel love is real?"

I was listening to the Smashing Pumpkins' songs today and one of the lyrics was "Do you feel love is real?"
I was just wondering what your views on love were because I know people think of love in different ways.
...plus its Valentine's Day soon
 
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Love is absolutely real. Every time I have entered in a relationship deeper and more successful than my last, I have "rediscovered" love to be more than I had previously suspected.

What I have so far discerned is that you cannot love two people in the quite the same way -- the word "love" really gets redefined again and again with each new relationship. If anything, that's evidence of love's reality to me.

- Warren
 
Its a matter of definition really. Is love what hallmark would like you to believe? No, that's a load of bull. Is love in the "romantic" sense real? No.

Its a set of chemical states in the brain. Nothing more. A hormonal reaction to certain stimulus. Thats all.
 
The taste of my favorite ice cream is also just a chemical state in my brain, but that doesn't diminish my appreciation of it.

Besides, Carly asked if we felt that love is real. If "love" can be identified with a discernable chemical state in the brain, then it's most certainly as real as that discernable chemical state.

- Warren
 
Oh, what a question! Of course it is! Regardless of what is causing it, there is absolutely no question about the overwhelming empirical evidence of its causes, whatever "it" actually is.
 
Real or not, love is great when you take it to the bedroom.

Note: Keyboards at school suck ass.
 
JasonRox said:
Real or not, love is great when you take it to the bedroom.

What's wrong with other places? :confused: :wink:
 
chroot said:
Love is absolutely real. Every time I have entered in a relationship deeper and more successful than my last, I have "rediscovered" love to be more than I had previously suspected.

What I have so far discerned is that you cannot love two people in the quite the same way -- the word "love" really gets redefined again and again with each new relationship. If anything, that's evidence of love's reality to me.

- Warren
What a romantic. :approve:
 
I personally don't think love is real. All it does is make people too emotional..
 
  • #10
chroot said:
Love is absolutely real. Every time I have entered in a relationship deeper and more successful than my last, I have "rediscovered" love to be more than I had previously suspected.

What I have so far discerned is that you cannot love two people in the quite the same way -- the word "love" really gets redefined again and again with each new relationship. If anything, that's evidence of love's reality to me.

- Warren

Am really glad you think that.
Of course, there's always doubts after break-ups but that's usual.
 
  • #11
Bladibla said:
I personally don't think love is real. All it does is make people too emotional..

If it isn't real, how does it make people so emotional?

But it can be a bit like trying to catch a glimpse of an endangered species. Elusive, rare, hiding in unexpected places, but when you finally find it, it's beautiful.
 
  • #12
OT: You can catch glimpses of endangered species at www.arkive.org. Glimpsing them in the wild, of course, is a horse of another color.
 
  • #13
love lasts 5 minutes. after that it's time for a cigar.
 
  • #14
etc said:
love lasts 5 minutes. after that it's time for a cigar.


Sounds like you've got a problem with being premature.

As i said, "love" in the romantic sense does not exist. Don't selectively wuote me and argue against that. Sure, there is a chemical state in the brain called "love", but that is not love in the "romantic" sense.
 
  • #15
Lust is chemistry.
Love is giving up your favorite Hooters shirt.
 
  • #16
Ivan Seeking said:
Lust is chemistry.
Love is giving up your favorite Hooters shirt.

One's interpretation of that statement depends on who is wearing the shirt when asked to get rid of it. :wink:
 
  • #17
Moonbear said:
One's interpretation of that statement depends on who is wearing the shirt when asked to get rid of it. :wink:

Should we consider this an admission? :smile:
 
  • #18
Ivan Seeking said:
Should we consider this an admission? :smile:

I admit to nothing. o:)
 
  • #19
Moonbear said:
I admit to nothing. o:)

When you're drunk you sure do.
 
  • #20
Does this ultimately explain the Moon part of Moonbear? :eek:
 
  • #21
Ivan Seeking said:
Does this ultimately explain the Moon part of Moonbear? :eek:

Uhh, nope. Moon has nothing to do with ridding oneself of shirts. :smile:
 
  • #22
Come on Moonbear, I know you can keep up. :biggrin:
 
  • #23
Ivan Seeking said:
Come on Moonbear, I know you can keep up. :biggrin:

o:) o:) Why, Ivan, I have no idea what you're talking about. *bats eyelashes and flips blonde hair* :smile:
 
  • #24
franz, what do you mean by "love in the romantic sense"?
 
  • #25
hypnagogue said:
franz, what do you mean by "love in the romantic sense"?


hallmark, valentine's day, gone with the wind, anything out of hollywod. Any ideal idea of it.
 
  • #26
hypnagogue said:
franz, what do you mean by "love in the romantic sense"?

I think that goes along with the line, "I love you, but I'm not in love with you." :rolleyes:
 
  • #27
Moonbear said:
I think that goes along with the line, "I love you, but I'm not in love with you." :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

*Adds to list of evidence that the idea of love is a load of bs*
 
  • #28
How do you mean that it doesn't exist? Some people certainly act that way... and some of those people do it out of a genuine emotion.
 
  • #29
hypnagogue said:
How do you mean that it doesn't exist? Some people certainly act that way... and some of those people do it out of a genuine emotion.


Love is a hormonal condition to create an urge to breed. Thats all. That is what i mean.
 
  • #30
franznietzsche said:
Love is a hormonal condition to create an urge to breed. Thats all. That is what i mean.

Well, even assuming you can identify the subjective emotion with brain activity (I don't believe that, but let's not get into it here), I don't see how that makes love 'not real.' Maybe you're trying to say it's not as it seems, but that's a completely different claim. In any case, even if natural selection has selected the emotion of love to promote breeding, that doesn't demean the emotion itself.
 
  • #31
hypnagogue said:
Well, even assuming you can identify the subjective emotion with brain activity (I don't believe that, but let's not get into it here), I don't see how that makes love 'not real.' Maybe you're trying to say it's not as it seems, but that's a completely different claim. In any case, even if natural selection has selected the emotion of love to promote breeding, that doesn't demean the emotion itself.

To add to that, if one is arguing it's entirely a biological process to promote breeding, isn't that even better support that it is real?

Though, I'd argue lust is the emotion involved in promoting breeding. Love is possibly more akin to affiliative pair-bonding behavior that promotes paternal care of offspring (if you want to consider it on biological terms only).
 
  • #32
Two other threads on the topic of Love.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=47520&page=1

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=60756


Love certainly has been used euphemistically for lust and desire, which are not love, but expression of selfishness.

How about a simple definition of love - a strong affection for another arising out of kinship or personal ties. (I would emphasize 'affection' in contrast to 'attraction'.)

I love my parents, my wife, my children, my siblings and their families, my friends, my cats and dog, and others who are not really as close as friends. All those forms of love are however very different. All involve some degree of affection, but beyond that there is also a sense of commitment.

And I personally take Love a step further. Love is not just affection, but love involves and abiding care, concern, consideration and respect for the other(s) involved in the relationship(s), and to some degree, reciprocity and mutuality.

The latter term is particularly important in terms of equal parties in a relationship, e.g. wife and husband. A wife and husband should be mutual companions and soulmates, in a reciprocal and supportive relationship. Marriage is an interdepedent relationship, and not one of dependence. Both husband and wife can have individual as well as mutual interests and balance can be achieved.

Marriage is particularly important in the context of having children - with both parents sharing responsibility for raising and nuturing the children. And from this, children learn to be caring, considerate, thoughtful, respectful, i.e. loving persons.

Finally, LOVE is hard work, but it is also, a most profound, spiritual and rewarding experience.
 
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  • #33
Astronuc said:
Finally, LOVE is hard work, but it is also, a most profound, spiritual and rewarding experience.

Too true.

And to those who don't think love exists then what would you call the emotion you feel for the person you care about most?
 
  • #34
Carly said:
Too true.

And to those who don't think love exists then what would you call the emotion you feel for the person you care about most?

An illusion, and a lie.

I'm tired of arguing against people who refuse to stick to a single definition of love in arguement. I didn' say love didn't exist, i said it was nothing more than a chemical state in the brain nothing important or particularly special. No more special than my desire to eat, or th input my brain receives from my eyes.
 
  • #35
To quote Henry now,
"Unless you're a nihilist, you're affected by these chemical emotions every day in your life and therefore make the most of them and enjoy the ride as all brain activity is chemical or electronic in the end. Sometimes it's best to keep yourself inside the box or you'll end up like philip larkin."
 
  • #36
FN, for that matter, every thought and feeling is the result of a chemical reaction in the brain. One could argue, all life is nothing more than a collection of chemical reactions. Limiting existence to that seems rather cynical (ah - another chemical state in the brain).

Life and Love are much more. :smile: :cool:

If you or anyone needs some, I've got extra. :biggrin:
 
  • #37
Astronuc said:
Limiting existence to that seems rather cynical (ah - another chemical state in the brain).

Find someone more cynical than me, you'd be hard pressed.


Astronuc said:
Life and Love are much more. :smile: :cool:

And that is where we disagree.
 
  • #38
How about neurochemist? Scientists live and love their work and some neurochemists work with brain chemistry. So, no need to disagree, as neurochemists you can both have your way. :approve: My logic is undeniable.

I'll get my jacket... :redface:
 
  • #39
OK Franz - look at this - http://boswell.web.aplus.net/mordor-vi.gif (animated) :biggrin:
 
  • #40
You bet it is.And it is becoming the national game of the world.
 
  • #41
Astronuc said:
OK Franz - look at this - http://boswell.web.aplus.net/mordor-vi.gif (animated) :biggrin:

I had already seen that. The relevance?
 
  • #42
franznietzsche said:
I didn' say love didn't exist, i said it was nothing more than a chemical state in the brain nothing important or particularly special. No more special than my desire to eat, or th input my brain receives from my eyes.

If that's true, then there's nothing particularly special about any subjective experience above and beyond any others. So why do you even bother spending your time on PF? Whatever enjoyment you might get out of it is an illusion, and a lie.

edit: whoops, didn't mean to imply you should stop coming here, so don't take it that way. All I'm trying to say is that different experiences are relatively more or less valuable to the individual, based on how they make the individual feel. Claiming that they are 'nothing more' than chemical reactions does nothing to change that observation.
 
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  • #43
hypnagogue said:
If that's true, then there's nothing particularly special about any subjective experience above and beyond any others.

Exactly what I was trying to say :smile: Am glad there are people who aren't negative about love :smile:
 
  • #44
hypnagogue said:
If that's true, then there's nothing particularly special about any subjective experience above and beyond any others. So why do you even bother spending your time on PF? Whatever enjoyment you might get out of it is an illusion, and a lie.

edit: whoops, didn't mean to imply you should stop coming here, so don't take it that way. All I'm trying to say is that different experiences are relatively more or less valuable to the individual, based on how they make the individual feel. Claiming that they are 'nothing more' than chemical reactions does nothing to change that observation.


Yeah, that enjoyment is an illusion, this negates what i say how?

I have no problem with these conclusions, do you?
 
  • #45
franznietzsche, how do you distinguish love from lust?
 
  • #46
Ivan Seeking said:
franznietzsche, how do you distinguish love from lust?


My point is that there really is no distinction.
 
  • #47
  • #48
franznietzsche said:
Yeah, that enjoyment is an illusion, this negates what i say how?

I have no problem with these conclusions, do you?

Perhaps I was reading too much into what you were saying, but your insistence that love is an illusion seems to indicate that you think it's not worth experiencing. If that's not what you meant, then I'm puzzled as to why you keep insisting on this point. It's sort of like wandering into a physics discussion and saying, "When Einstein formulated general relatvitiy, all that was happening was certain chemical reactions were causing him to stain pieces of paper with ink in a systematic way." That might be true, but it doesn't seem particularly relevant to discussing Einstein or general relativity.

My point is that there really is no distinction [between love and lust].

There certainly is a distinction. Love and lust feel qualitatively different to the experiencer, and they typically are associated with drastically different behaviors. I haven't seen any evidence for this, but they very likely show up as distinct blobs of color in an fMRI scan of the brain as well. There is overlap in some cases, certainly, but that doesn't disqualify any distinctions whatsoever. I don't mean to be obnoxious or pejorative in any way when I say this, but perhaps you can't find any relevant distinction between the two because you haven't personally experienced both emotions fully.
 
  • #49
the number 42 said:
I haven't read the rest of this thread, so sorry for any duplication. But for those of you in any doubt that love is real, check this out:
http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/feb/10heart.htm


And this is any different from going into shock from severe pain, another chemical condition in the brain?

Other triggers, said one report, 'included a surprise party, car accident, armed robbery, fierce argument, court appearance and fear of public speaking.'

Yup, definitely caused by "love".

Stress is stress, love is nothing special.
 
  • #50
Hmm...I may need to get myself this book.
Affective Neuroscience** - The Foundations of Human and Animal Emotions*by Jaak Panksepp. http://www.oup.com/ca/isbn/0-19-517805-X

From the description:
Some investigators have argued that emotions, especially animal emotions, are illusory concepts outside the realm of scientific inquiry. However, with advances in neurobiology and neuroscience, researchers are demonstrating that this position is wrong as they move closer to a lasting understanding of the biology and psychology of emotion. In Affective Neuroscience, Jaak Panksepp provides the most up-to-date information about the brain-operating systems that organize the fundamental emotional tendencies of all mammals.
 
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