News Is Obama fueling the Gate's incident?

[TheStatutoryApe]

Crowley is required by law to state his badge number, he did not(the police report makes no claim that he did).

Gates request of Crowleys name and badge number occurred AFTER it was established that Gates was the owner of the home. How is he still a suspect? Crowley conceded Gates request was lawful when Crowley stated his NAME. If the request was unlawful why state his name and not his badge number? he is required to state both.

If the latter part of your post is fact(the "Outburst" that occurred outside, Evo says witness agree), then both broke the laws that day. Both are equally to blame for this escalation.

From what I read of the report Gates asked for Crowley's name. I did not see any reference to a request for badge number but I will take a look and see... nope. Just says he asked for a name. And according to Crowley he furnished it but Gates apparently did not hear because he was busy ranting. Gates made a request for Crowley's ID before furnishing his own. At that point Crowley may not have been obliged to show it, the law states it is to be furnished upon "lawful request". I am unsure what exactly constitutes a lawful request. How about you? I am pretty sure that while questioning a suspect in a possible burglary, before they have properly identified themselves with ID, an officer is not likely under any obligation to show ID other than a badge which is usually worn in plain view on the uniform.

 

[Astronuc]

Crowley is required by law to state his badge number, he did not(the police report makes no claim that he did).

Gates request of Crowleys name and badge number occurred AFTER it was established that Gates was the owner of the home. How is he still a suspect? Crowley conceded Gates request was lawful when Crowley stated his NAME. If the request was unlawful why state his name and not his badge number? he is required to state both.

If the latter part of your post is fact(the "Outburst" that occurred outside, Evo says witness agree), then both broke the laws that day. Both are equally to blame for this escalation.

I wasn't there, and neither was anyone else from PF. I have read a lot of a claims in this thread based on speculation about specifics.

The police report acknowledges a univeristy ID, but does not mention a drivers license. Officer Crowley's report indicates that the resident (later identified as Gates) was uncooperative. Gates was apparently on the phone calling someone else. If Crowley was in uniform, then perhaps he was wearing his badge where Gates could see it. Perhaps Crowley never got a chance to present his ID because he had to deal with Gates's outburst (disorderly conduct).

There appears to be contridictory statements from Gates with respect to the police report. I guess we'll have to wait for Gates to file a suit.

Meanwhile, the OP is about Obama's response, while most of the arguing is about what Crowley or Gates did or did not do, which is all based on hearsay, with the exception of the police report, which is the only legal document presented with respect to the event in question.

Let's wait until Gates is deposed.

 

[Hurkyl]

Heres his side
http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,1

It's certainly colorful! The fact I hadn't seen a report like that was one of the biggest pieces missing from the hypothesis that Gates' doesn't have a legitimate claim that he was mistreated.


The thing I find most interesting about his report is that once he made his first request for the officer's name along with his threat, he looks like he goes into a panic and starts yelling "I want your name and badge number" over and over, with the "I'm a black man and you're a white cop" included somewhere in the middle.


The two accounts (at least the part I'm about to describe) fit surprisingly well

...
*Gates' provides his ID*
*Crowley studies the IDs, then turns his attention to his police radio to call for Harvard police*
Gates: "I want your name and badge number so I can file a complaint about how you treated me at the door"^*
Gates: *goes into panic*
Gates: "I want your name and badge number."
Gates: "I want your name and badge number."
*Crowley finishes his radio call, and focuses back on Gates*
Gates: "I want your name and badge number."
Crowley: "I'm off--"
Gates: "You're not answering me because I'm a black man and you're a white cop!"
*Gates continues his panic, not really noticing what Crowley's saying*
*Crowley tries to leave*
...

 

[Phrak]

It's certainly colorful! The fact I hadn't seen a report like that was one of the biggest pieces missing from the hypothesis that Gates' doesn't have a legitimate claim that he was mistreated.

Gate's laywer is a master in penmenship.

Legitimate means legal. That's irrelevant to the facts. I don't think you have a full appreciation of the asocial dynamics. When is the last time you were encouraged to withdraw from a black history class?

 

[Hurkyl]

When is the last time you were encouraged to withdraw from a black history class?

 

[Sorry!]

Man things like this make me scared of being WHITE, lol.

Imagine a black officer had talked to Gates. I'm sure the officer would have acted the same way at the beginning... Then Gates would have gone into his house, probably happy the police are doing a great job of protecting his neighbourhood.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Man things like this make me scared of being WHITE, lol.

Imagine a black officer had talked to Gates. I'm sure the officer would have acted the same way at the beginning... Then Gates would have gone into his house, probably happy the police are doing a great job of protecting his neighbourhood.

I know that I am not a police officer but I have actually had an opposite experience myself.

I have very rarely had any trouble with black people in my job. I've actually had the most trouble with white people (I am white myself). When I worked at the college half my coworkers were black and probably about a fourth of the students were black. It seemed to me that the black students gave my black coworkers a harder time than they gave me. From what I could tell it seemed that they felt my black coworkers should be more amenable to their protests. Similarly the white students often gave me a harder time than they gave my black coworkers.

Many times I have thought over my experiences in my job and considered the interesting differences in people and the way they react to me. I don't often talk about my thoughts though because I am worried people may think I am racist. It just seems that people of different cultures have rather different attitudes towards authority figures.

 

[turbo]

Apparently turbo was there and witnessed the whole thing.

Very funny. The difference between you and me is that I give credence to Gates' version of the events, because it makes more sense. Gates answered the door, while talking on his portable phone to arrange to get his door repaired, and a cop was on his porch and asked Gates to come outside. Gates refused, and said that he was a Harvard professor, and that he lived in the house. Crowley demanded ID, and when Gates turned to go to get his wallet, Crowley followed him into the house uninvited. Being treated as a break-in suspect in my own home and having a cop come into my home uninvited with no warrant would have ticked me off. Think of how Gates must have felt. Here he is, an older man who walks with the aid of a cane, who answers the front door to find himself a suspect in a break-in.

Is that logical? If he were a burglar, would he have been making phone calls from the place he broke into, and would he have answered the door instead of laying low? Those are pretty good indications that he lived in the house, and was not a burglar. Still, Crowley treated him as a suspect, not as a possible victim of a break-in. Gates had a pretty good reason to feel that race might have been a factor in his treatment, because seeing a ~60 year old white man or woman calmly answering the door while making a phone call would probably have prompted the officer to stand down and ask if there had been a break-in or a robbery or any other trouble at the house.

 

[Astronuc]

Gates says it's time to 'move on' from his arrest
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090726/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_disorderly

It's time to move on.

 

[ThomasT]

re the Time opinion piece linked to by Esoteric:

That's a biased personal opinion piece. And a really poorly written one at that.

I thought it was well enough written. Police routinely abuse their positions.

Keep in mind that the first duty of every citizen in a free society is to question authority. Our Constitution, our system of government, is based on the notion that those who are given the authority to make, administer, and enforce laws can't be trusted. Any disrespect they're shown has been earned many times over.

After doing what he was sent there to do, and assessing that Gates was no threat, the officer should have just left. The alarming thing about the incident, to me, is that if Gates wasn't a famous person, he would be caught up in a system that, in practice, has little to do with justice.

Keeping the system under constant close scrutiny is why any incidents like this should be fueled.

It's time to move on.

Yes, that's what the officer should have done after he did what he was sent there to do -- ie., assessing whether or not Gates was a threat.

That's what RoboCop would have done.

 

[Sorry!]

Not only is there abuse of power by police, there is also abuse of power by prosecutors, http://blog.law.northwestern.edu/bluhm/2009/02/latest-illinois-exoneree-alan-beaman.html"

I'm sure if it was a black cop white person scenario where the white person treated the black cop rudely just because the cop was black and he was white it would be a whole new ball game right?

 

[Hurkyl]

Being treated as a break-in suspect in my own home and having a cop come into my home uninvited with no warrant would have ticked me off. Here he is, an older man who walks with the aid of a cane, who answers the front door to find himself a suspect in a break-in.

He was more than just a suspect, he was guilty. He, and his driver, physically forced the front door to gain entry.

If you would get angry under such circumstances, then you sir have a serious problem.

Still, Crowley treated him as a suspect, not as a possible victim of a break-in.

Of course. Not only did he had eyewitness testimony that the people who broke in haven't yet left, but Gates was being combative too.

Gates had a pretty good reason to feel that race might have been a factor in his treatment,

Gates was already convinced race was a factor upon the initial greeting when he was asked to come outside. (okay, he was convinced he was in real danger -- I assume that to include thinking racial motivation)

because seeing a ~60 year old white man or woman calmly answering the door while making a phone call would probably have prompted the officer to stand down and ask if there had been a break-in or a robbery or any other trouble at the house.

Do you have evidence? Or is this sheer speculation.

 

[Evo]

This thread is going way off topic (off topic posts deleted). If and when Obama apologizes, then we can discuss that. Closed.

 

[Astronuc]

Update: Mass. police to release 911 call in Gates arrest
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090727/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_calle

Orginially this story was: Cambridge police: Race not mentioned in 911 call
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/6548967.html

. . . .
Lucia Whalen placed the 911 call July 16, saying she saw two men on Gates' front porch who appeared to be trying to force open the front door. . . .

In the statement issued Sunday by attorney Wendy Murphy, Whalen — who has not spoken publicly — said she only saw the backs of the two men and did not know their race when she made the call. Murphy said Whalen, who works nearby, called because she had been aware of recent break-ins in the area and wanted to correct "misinformation" suggesting that she placed the call because the men on the porch were black.

"Contrary to published reports that a 'white woman' called 911 and reported seeing 'two black men' trying to gain entry into Mr. Gates home, the woman, who has olive colored skin and is of Portuguese descent, told the 911 operator that she observed 'two men' at the home," Murphy's statement read.

Murphy said Whalen has been very upset by news reports she believes have unfairly depicted her as a racist.

"She doesn't live in the area. She is by no means the entitled white neighbor ... That has been the theme in the blogs and the implication in some of the mainstream news media," Murphy said in a phone interview Monday.

"She didn't know their race, and it's very clear that she called not because of what they looked like but because of what they were doing."
. . . .

This article dispels some of the rumors and innuendo surrounding the incident.

It's important to wait for facts and not rush to judgement based on hearsay.