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Is space fabric or fluid?

  1. Oct 3, 2008 #1
    Is space fabric or fluid?

    Please cite and explain the most persuasive observation or experiment that demonstrates space is fabric and not fluid.

    I will agree that mass warps space as pressure differential warps atmosphere. Yet without reason and observation other, I cannot agree that is the whole truth.

    f=ma demonstrates force is acceleration.
    f=ma fixes space and time as constant.

    e=mc2 demonstrates that mass is energy by spacetime constant.
    e=mc2 fixes (warps) space by fluent (relative) time.
    This is not the same as gravity (acceleration by mass).

    f=(e/c2)a predicts fluent space and time.
    g=(e/c2)a predicts acceleration of spacetime by mass.

    Please cite and explain the most persuasive observation or experiment that demonstrates space is not both relative fabric and quantum fluid.

  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 9, 2008 #2
    the picture you link to compares a spiral galaxy to a hurricane. I assume that is what you meant by "I will agree that mass warps space as pressure differential warps atmosphere. ".

    they are completely different. there is no connection.
  4. Oct 11, 2008 #3
    No one knows what space is. It can be conjured as strings, spin networks, and branes for example. We believe it is discrete, meaning it has a minimum size (plank volume,planck area) and can hold only a finite amount of entropy and information....The term "fabric" I think is meat to illustrate something that can bend and warp in the presence of gravity or acceleration....something flexible rather than rigid. It has no special meaning.

    There are three entities that have gravitational influence: mass, energy and pressure.

    Of course most of your statements as written are incorrect...and seem irrelevent to your question...
    as one example

    "force is acceleration"

    is too imprecise... If I apply a 1lb force to a box on a surface with 2 lbs of friction, all remains immovable...no work is done...

    defining such factors isn't easy, it takes considerable thought and likely many iterations from many people over some years before a valid definition can be understood and agreed upon for widespread standard meaning and application....
  5. Oct 12, 2008 #4
    Please forgive, but I asked for observation or demonstration of 'not’. Please accept that I do not find “is not!” to be any more persuasive than you might find "is too!"

    While I will certainly agree that the properties of an electromagnetic fluid might be relatively different than the properties of a quantum fluid; ‘relatively’ is not the same as ‘completely’.

    The observation (picture) provided clearly demonstrates the fallacy of ‘completely’ different. Both hurricane and galaxy demonstrate properties of logarithmic spiral.

    While I will agree that if you freeze velocity differential by inverse pressure differential in the electromagnetic fluid called earth atmosphere, the result is relative warping of atmosphere; please believe I do not accept the explanation that ‘a balloon is accelerated toward eye of hurricane by the warp of atmosphere’ as the whole truth. Alas, as you measure the wave (relative warp), you loose observation of the (quantum) particle momentum.

  6. Oct 12, 2008 #5
    Thank you for your well-reasoned response. However, you have avoided and did not answer my question or request.

    Is space fabric or fluid?
    Please cite and explain the most persuasive observation or experiment that demonstrates space is not both relative fabric and quantum fluid.

    Please allow a restatement and clarification of f=ma.
    f=ma demonstrates force as acceleration.
    That force as acceleration might be countered by inverse force as friction does not make that statement or the others incorrect or irrelevant.

    There are two entities that have gravitational influence: mass and its inverse (equal and opposite) energy: gravity and levity. Gravity is the pressure differential between these two opposite forces.

    The term "fabric" is used to deny that space might be "fluid".

    The valid definition of space and gravity will be prolonged indefinitely as long as the dogma that space cannot possibly be quantum fluid holds sway.

    The flow of space and time carries me weightless towards center of mass. Yet I feel force of 1 G by gravity and inertia. The electromagnetic force of me and chair and earth as matter easily holds the mass of me against the current of spacetime through earth. Yet even still, I do not feel the flow of space or time toward sun or galaxy center or even greatest attractor.

    The theory that gravity is the warp of space consistently fails to predict observations of satellites and galaxies and the universe.

    Please offer the most persuasive observation that does not follow the predictions if gravity might be acceleration of quantum space by mass.

    Please ask for clarification of any of my comments that do not seem to ring true to understanding.

  7. Oct 13, 2008 #6

    Vanadium 50

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    Space is neither a fabric nor a fluid. You don't buy it buy the bolt, nor does it come in a bottle. These are analogies, and like all analogies, have some range of validity, but you can't take them too far.
  8. Oct 13, 2008 #7


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    How so?
  9. Oct 13, 2008 #8
    This is like asking "are electrons like small pebbles or grains of sand?" Either analogy fails miserably. Terms like "the fabric of spacetime" are just figurative expressions. People enjoy familiarity of how the comforter on their bed bends when weight is applied, and the analogy, although coarse, is close enough to get the point across until a mathematical understanding can be ingrained.

    So the answer to your question is that your question is nonsense. You might as well be asking whether the color blue tastes more like strawberries or watermelon.
  10. Oct 13, 2008 #9


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    And with that, I believe this thread has been sufficiently answered.

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