Is the time independent Schrodinger equation commutative?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the time-independent Schrödinger equation and its properties, particularly focusing on the commutativity of certain operators involved in the equation. Participants are analyzing the mathematical formulation and implications of the equation in the context of quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the formulation of the time-independent Schrödinger equation, questioning the correctness of coefficients and terms. There are attempts to derive relationships between different forms of the equation and the implications of operator commutation.

Discussion Status

The discussion includes various attempts to clarify misunderstandings regarding the equation's terms and their implications. Some participants express uncertainty about their previous contributions, while others provide corrections or alternative perspectives on the mathematical relationships involved.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of confusion regarding the application of coefficients and the derivation of certain differential equations from the original second-order equation. Participants are also considering the implications of eigenvalues related to the operators discussed.

etotheipi
Homework Statement
A particle moves in the potential ##V(x) = -\frac{\hbar^2}{m} \text{sech}^2{x}##. Show that ##A^{\dagger}A \psi = (\mathcal{E} + 1)\psi## where ##\mathcal{E} = \frac{2mE}{\hbar^2}## and ##A = \frac{d}{dx} + \tanh{x}##, ##A^{\dagger} = -\frac{d}{dx} + \tanh{x}##.

Hence show that the ground state has ##\mathcal{E} \geq -1## and that a wavefunction ##\psi_0(x)## has an energy eigenstate with ##\mathcal{E} = -1## iff ##\frac{d\psi_0}{dx} + \tanh{(x)} \psi_0 = 0## and find ##\psi_0(x)##.
Relevant Equations
N/A
I'm falling at the first hurdle here; the time independent Schrödinger becomes $$-\frac{\hbar^2}{2m} \psi''(x) - \frac{\hbar^2}{m}\text{sech}^2(x) \psi(x) = E\psi(x)$$ $$\left(-\frac{d^2}{dx^2} - 2\text{sech}^2(x) \right)\psi(x) = \frac{2mE}{\hbar^2}\psi(x) = \mathcal{E} \psi(x)$$ $$\left(-\frac{d^2}{dx^2} + 2\tanh^2(x) \right)\psi(x) = (\mathcal{E}+2) \psi(x)$$ But this can't be right since ##A^{\dagger}A = \tanh^2(x) - \frac{d^2}{dx^2}## and I've also got a 2 on the other side.

I wondered if anyone could point out my mistake? Thanks!
 
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Applying coefficient 1/2 on V(x) seems to satisfy the given relation.
 
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anuttarasammyak said:
Applying coefficient 1/2 on V(x) seems to satisfy the given relation.

I noticed that but the source of these questions is usually very reliable so I thought there's no way it could be a mistake! But if you say so also, then I am happy to correct it and work from that. Thanks!
 
A further question; with an integrating factor and then with some normalisation I can find $$\psi(x) = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}\cosh{x}}$$ for the equation ##\frac{d\psi}{dx} + \tanh{x} \psi(x) = 0##. But how was it possible to obtain this differential equation from the second order one above? We know that ##A^{\dagger}A## has eigenvalues greater than or equal to zero.
 
I found my post #2 was wrong. From OP
(-\frac{d^2}{dx^2}+2\tanh^2 x -1)\psi(x)=(\epsilon+1) \psi(x)
(-\frac{d}{dx}+\tanh x)(\frac{d}{dx}+\tanh x)\psi(x)=(\epsilon+1) \psi(x)
using
-\frac{d}{dx}(\tanh x\ \psi(x))= (-1 + tanh^2x)\psi(x) - \tanh x \frac{d}{dx}\psi(x)<br />
 
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anuttarasammyak said:
I found my post #2 was wrong.
How so? It gives the correct result: $$ \begin{align*}-\frac{\hbar^2}{2m} \psi''(x) - \frac{\hbar^2}{2m}\text{sech}^2(x) \psi(x) &= E\psi(x) \\ \left(-\frac{d^2}{dx^2} - \text{sech}^2(x) \right)\psi(x) &= \frac{2mE}{\hbar^2}\psi(x) = \mathcal{E} \psi(x) \\ A^{\dagger}A \psi(x) = \left(-\frac{d^2}{dx^2} + \tanh^2(x) \right)\psi(x) &= (\mathcal{E}+1) \psi(x) \end{align*}$$
 
We have forgotten the term
-\frac{d \tanh x }{dx} \psi(x)
 
anuttarasammyak said:
We have forgotten about the term
-\frac{d \tanh x }{dx} \psi(x)

I'm sorry, I don't follow. Isn't it just a difference of two squares? That along with ##\tanh^2(x) + \text{sech}^2(x) = 1##.
 
(-\frac{d}{dx}+\tanh x)(\frac{d}{dx}+\tanh x)\psi(x)=-\frac{d^2 \psi(x)}{dx^2}+\tanh x\frac{d \psi(x)}{dx}+\tanh^2 x\ \psi(x)-\frac{d}{dx}[\tanh x\ \psi(x)]
 
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Ah okay, yes you're right it's not commutative.
 

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