Is this valid for improper integrals.

  • Thread starter Thread starter tnutty
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Integrals
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the validity of handling improper integrals, particularly concerning the use of limits and the treatment of singularities within the integration bounds. Participants are exploring the implications of combining limits in one integral versus separating them.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning whether it is valid to combine two limits in a single integral for improper integrals. There is discussion about the standard notation and potential pitfalls of misinterpretation, especially concerning the principal value of integrals.

Discussion Status

The conversation is active, with participants providing differing perspectives on the notation and validity of the approaches discussed. Some express confusion regarding the implications of singularities and the necessity of splitting integrals at points of discontinuity.

Contextual Notes

Participants are considering the implications of singularities within the integration intervals and the necessity of addressing these points when evaluating improper integrals. There is mention of homework constraints that may influence how these integrals are approached.

tnutty
Messages
324
Reaction score
1
note: INT = integral and the above and bottom arguments are the bounds for the integral. infinity
INT [ f(x) ]
-infinity

=

lim a - >-infinity and lim b-> infinity of :
b
INT [f(x)] = pi
a

I am just wondering if the move having two limits in one integral is valid,
as done above. Or would I have to separate it
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
I suppose it is, but usually we write it as:

[tex]\lim_{a \to \infty} \int_{-a}^a \arctan x dx[/tex]
 
Oh, even better and more efficient, Thanks. To me its useless to split it into two integrals because there is not need.
 
Cyosis said:
I suppose it is, but usually we write it as:

[tex]\lim_{a \to \infty} \int_{-a}^a \arctan x dx[/tex]
Not, that is NOT how we usually write it! That is the "principal value" of the integral and can be very misleading.

For example, if we write
[tex]\int_{-\infty}^\infty \frac{1}{x} dx[/tex]
as
[tex]\lim_{a\rightarrow \infty} \int_{-a}^a \frac{1}{x}dx[/tex]
it becomes
[tex]\lim_{a\rightarrow \infty} ln(|a|)- ln(|-a|)= 0[/tex]

The standard way to write it is, in fact,
[tex]\lim_{a\rightarrow -\infty}\lim_{b\rightarrow \infty}\int_a^b f(x) dx[/tex]
which, for f(x)= 1/x, does not exist.
 
I'm confused myself now, while I see it going wrong for the limit to infinity this raises a question for the interval (-1,1).

[tex] \lim_{a \to 1} \int_{-a}^a \frac{1}{x}dx=\lim_{a \to 1} \ln|a|-\ln|-a|=0[/tex]

Now do this again with double limits.
[tex] \lim_{a \to -1} \lim_{b \to 1} \int_a^b \frac{1}{x} dx=\lim_{a \to -1} \lim_{b \to 1} (\ln|b|-\ln|a|)=\ln|1|-\ln|-1|=0[/tex]

But this integral should diverge should it not? So given that the function has a singularity somewhere within its integration interval should we not also split the integral up in, in this case -1,0 and 0,1?

For example:

[tex]\lim_{a \to -1} \lim_{\epsilon \uparrow 0} \int_a^\epsilon \frac{1}{x}dx+\lim_{b \to 1} \lim_{\epsilon \downarrow 0} \int_\epsilon^b \frac{1}{x} dx[/tex]
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 105 ·
4
Replies
105
Views
11K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K