Is y(t) Time-Invariant? Debating an Elementary Question

  • Thread starter WolfOfTheSteps
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In summary, the conversation revolves around a question posted in the homework forum about proving time invariance for a given system. The poster shares their attempt at a solution and asks for clarification on their reasoning. Another member responds with their thoughts on the proof and suggests that it may be time variant. The conversation ends with a comment about the poster's username being fixed.
  • #1
WolfOfTheSteps
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Note: I posted this a month ago in the homework forum, but never got a reply. It really is an elementary question, and I think someone here might know the answer. (I hope I don't get an infraction for the re-post! If it's inappropriate, please delete.)

Homework Statement



Show that

[tex] y(t) = \frac{d}{dt}\left[e^{-t}x(t)\right][/tex]

is time invariant.

2. Relevant Information

I don't think this is TI! I'm told it is TI, but I think I proved that it is not TI! My proof is below. Am I wrong or is the question wrong in assuming that the system is TI?

The Attempt at a Solution



Let [itex]y_1[/itex] be the output when [itex]x(t+t_0)[/itex] is the input, then:

[tex] y_1(t) = \frac{d}{dt}\left[e^{-t}x(t+t_0)\right] [/tex]

but

[tex] y(t+t_0) = \frac{d}{dt}\left[e^{-(t+t_0)}x(t+t_0)\right] = e^{-t_0}\frac{d}{dt}\left[e^{-t}x(t+t_0)\right] [/tex]

Therefore [itex]y_1(t) \neq y(t+t_0)[/itex] and the system is not time invariant.

[tex]\Box[/tex]

Also, just to make sure I wasn't missing some subtlety because of the differentiation I tried to prove this another way.

Since x(t) is arbitrary, I assumed x(t)=t, so that:

[tex]y(t)=\frac{d}{dt}[te^{-t}] = e^{-t}-te^{-t}[/tex]

Now I time shift the system by 2:

[tex]y(t+2) = e^{-(t+2)}-(t+2)e^{-(t+2)}=e^{-2}\left[e^{-t}-(t+2)e^{-t}\right][/tex]

Now I let [itex]y_1(t)[/itex] be the output when the input is [itex]x(t+2)=t+2[/itex]:

[tex]y_1(t) = \frac{d}{dt}[(t+2)e^{-t}] = e^{-t}-(t+2)e^{-t}[/tex]

Clearly, then, [itex]y(t+2)\neq y_1(t)[/itex] and the system is not TI for x(t)=t, and hence cannot be TI for arbitrary x(t).

[tex]\Box[/tex]

So, if it is TI, what am I doing wrong? And how would I prove that it is TI?
 
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  • #2
WolfOfTheSteps said:
(I hope I don't get an infraction

Infraction?! You optimist! Nay! A banning, at the least! Begone, beast!

By the way, it's nice to see that you got your username fixed. :biggrin:
 
  • #3
The first proof is a bit heavy for me at this time of night... but the second seems to me that you have correctly proven it time variant. I'm no genius though... just letting you know i can't see any problem with your reasoning ;)
 
  • #4
Um, please note when the last post was dated before posting.
 

Related to Is y(t) Time-Invariant? Debating an Elementary Question

1. Is y(t) Time-Invariant?

The answer to this question depends on the context in which y(t) is being used. In general, a system can be considered time-invariant if its response or output does not change over time. However, this assumes that the input to the system is also constant. If the input to the system changes over time, then the system may not be time-invariant.

2. What is a time-invariant system?

A time-invariant system is a system whose response or output does not change over time. This means that if the input to the system is delayed or advanced by a certain amount of time, the output will also be delayed or advanced by the same amount of time. Time-invariant systems are often used in scientific and engineering applications, such as signal processing and control systems.

3. How can I determine if a system is time-invariant?

To determine if a system is time-invariant, you can perform a time-invariance test. This involves applying a constant input to the system and measuring the output. Then, the input is delayed or advanced by a certain amount of time, and the output is measured again. If the output remains the same, then the system is time-invariant. However, if the output changes, then the system is not time-invariant.

4. What are some examples of time-invariant systems?

Some examples of time-invariant systems include electronic filters, linear time-invariant systems (LTIs), and mechanical systems with constant parameters. In these systems, the response or output remains the same regardless of the time at which the input is applied. This allows for easier analysis and control of the system.

5. How does time-invariance affect the behavior of a system?

Time-invariance can have a significant impact on the behavior of a system. In general, time-invariant systems are easier to analyze and control compared to time-varying systems. This is because the response of the system can be predicted by simply knowing the input and the system's properties. Time-invariance also allows for the use of mathematical tools, such as Laplace transforms and Fourier series, to model and analyze the system's behavior.

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