Japan Earthquake: Nuclear Plants at Fukushima Daiichi

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The Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant is facing significant challenges following the earthquake, with reports indicating that reactor pressure has reached dangerous levels, potentially 2.1 times capacity. TEPCO has lost control of pressure at a second unit, raising concerns about safety and management accountability. The reactor is currently off but continues to produce decay heat, necessitating cooling to prevent a meltdown. There are conflicting reports about an explosion, with indications that it may have originated from a buildup of hydrogen around the containment vessel. The situation remains serious, and TEPCO plans to flood the containment vessel with seawater as a cooling measure.
  • #9,541
clancy688 said:
Regarding the live feed:

I just realized that the east side of Unit 1 has been sprayed or painted with a yellow or brown substance. Is that probably the glue they're using to keep particles from being carried away by winds? But why are they only treating the east side of Unit 1 and nothing else?

I searched for the process, it can be seen on this video:



It starts at minute 1. 2006-06-09, 10:00.

I think you mean the west side. Dust inhibitor.

Here's a map of the entire compound, with many labels:

http://bravenewclimate.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/fukushima_daiichi_map_plan.jpg
 
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  • #9,543
Bodge said:
Watch the youtube video from 02:30 JST:

http://news.lucaswhitefieldhixson.com/2011/06/tepco-cam-blocked-out-by-vapor-event.html

Lots of smoke and steam, then fog?

EDIT: where is the best place to find up to date rad readings for the NPP?
...and here:

http://www.youtube.com/fuku1live#p/u/2/v7ueN17orYo
 
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  • #9,544
Bioengineer01 said:
I think that we understand each other, but for the fun or argument :), forensic data from outside sensors can provide a ton of information about what is going on at the plant...

Why have these CTBTO guys stopped reporting?

There has never been a gap in the data like this:

http://www.bfs.de/de/ion/imis/spurenmessungen.html/#2

Nothing for the past 10 days...

Does anyone have academic contacts with bfs? Can any german speakers here contact them?
 
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  • #9,545
Unit 3:
TEPCO announced on June 10 that they confirmed the presence of water in the basement of the Reactor 3 reactor building at Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant. TEPCO had estimated that 6,400 tons of water would be in the basement as of the end of May, based on the amount of water injected into the RPV. Now its existence has been confirmed.
fukushimareactor36-10-11.JPG

fukushimareactor36-10-11-3.JPG
 
  • #9,546
Pu239 said:
I think you mean the west side. Dust inhibitor.

Here's a map of the entire compound, with many labels:

http://bravenewclimate.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/fukushima_daiichi_map_plan.jpg
If you draw a line from Unit 1 to Unit 4 you're basically walking due South. The camera is facing towards south-east.

Looking at the camera, you're sort of looking south-ish, with east towards left, and west pointing right.

http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu/f1-np/camera/index-j.html

And, you will see a racoon if you stare long enough (near Unit 1), and a black crow [not a UFO]. The odd worker will show up, spraying dust inhibitor on bushes and other things. A robotic arm might be seen spraying walls - very adroitly I might add, impressive to watch.
 
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  • #9,547
elektrownik said:
This ? If (as we seen on underwater sfp 4 video) gate is undamaged, there is no other explanation...

The Gate was closed at 11.3-
But it could be demaged by Erthquake or Explosion. So the water get fromthe SFP to Reactor.
 
  • #9,548
elektrownik said:
This ? If (as we seen on underwater sfp 4 video) gate is undamaged, there is no other explanation...
[PLAIN]http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3165/gggss.png[/QUOTE]

[STRIKE]Isn't the hotspot in this picture in the wrong spot for the reactor? My understanding of the construction of the reactor building is that if viewed in elevation view from the side, it's L-shaped. The taller portion contains the RPV and is square shaped with the RPV centered in the square and the shorter portion is rectangular shaped. In plan view seen from above, the RPV would be in the center of a square with a rectangular lower portion of the building attached to the side. In other words, if the hotspot in the above picture shown were the RPV, shouldn't it be centered in the picture vertically and offset to one side horizontally instead of centered horizontally and offset vertically?

I will try to find a picture illustrating what I'm talking about and will edit this post if I can find what I'm looking for. If I'm wrong, let me know, because then I've got the building layout all wrong in my head.[/STRIKE]

EDIT: Nevermind, I think I understand where my confusion was. I was thinking of the Unit 1 prints I've seen and even those were not exactly what I was picturing. I don't have anything to add other than the reactor doesn't seem to be offset where I thought it was. I left the original post struck-through.
 
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  • #9,549
Bodge said:
Why have these CTBTO guys stopped reporting?

There has never been a gap in the data like this:

http://www.bfs.de/de/ion/imis/spurenmessungen.html/#2

Nothing for the past 10 days...

Does anyone have academic contacts with bfs? Can any german speakers here contact them?

That's what they write under the I131 and C137 graphs:

Die Aktivitätskonzentrationen von Jod-131/Cäsium-137 liegen seit Anfang Mai 2011 größtenteils unterhalb den stationsspezifischen Nachweisgrenzen (schraffierter Bereich). Die Grafik wird wöchentlich aktualisiert.

Since the beginning of may, activity concentrations of I131/C137 lie mostly under the verification limit of the respective measuring stations. The chart will be updated weekly.
 
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  • #9,550
Bodge said:
Why have these CTBTO guys stopped reporting?

There has never been a gap in the data like this:

http://www.bfs.de/de/ion/imis/spurenmessungen.html/#2

Nothing for the past 10 days...

Does anyone have academic contacts with bfs? Can any german speakers here contact them?

If I'm reading the document correctly, it is because they state that they have reached such a low level that it disappears into the background.
They speak of a 'minimal level for demonstrable presence', whichg the measurements have sunk into.
 
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  • #9,551
thehammer2 said:
I will try to find a picture illustrating what I'm talking about and will edit this post if I can find what I'm looking for. If I'm wrong, let me know, because then I've got the building layout all wrong in my head.

The horizontal portion of the "L-shape" you're talking about is integrated into the long turbine building which's between the reactors and the sea. It is at the bottom of the picture. That can be easily verified since the reactor's wall has a giant "dent" on the right side. The dent is facing Unit 3, so the turbine building and the horizontal portion of the L-shape is below.
 
  • #9,552
ManuBZH said:
Actually, this has already been reported by SteveElbows on post #9406. With a more interesting fact that the previous video which holds an "action scene" showing some workers wandering in front of the camera.

What I did not realize at the time was that less-sped up versions of these videos existed, so its possible to get a bit more detail once you use the faster version to spot hours where something visible happens.

I also did not realize that in the video after the one showing reactor 1 wall spraying, a similar activity being carried out at reactor 3 is just about visible, if memory serves me correctly this operation is in full flow by 11:30 of that day.

I had also missed another spraying event at reactor 1, they sprayed the 'roof' of the building in the video below, which makes for an interesting visual compared to the usually dull webcam.

http://www.youtube.com/user/fuku1long#p/u/62/ntjOm7x-KaY
 
  • #9,553
Joe Neubarth said:
It could easily be broken into ten or more different threads. There are some topics that we can only speculate on. Since that is going to happen anyway, it is better that it be allowed for with the understanding that it is physics being applied to possible scenarios. We use physics for that purpose every day anyway.

Single threads for every Unit (such as the explosion thread for Unit 3) would be a very effective measure to organize this information monster.
But we somehow have to make sure that users won't use this thread for Unit specific discussions which could be outsourced into those threads... it's a pain in the *** to find informations or discussions in this megathread.
 
  • #9,554
Joe Neubarth said:
Thank you. MY observation was that the top of the fuel modules were visible at the depth in the water where they should have been located, regardless of the debris. If there had been an explosion as Artie Gunderson claimed, those modules should have been blown out of the pool like a shotgun blast. Since they were still visable, I believe Artie's conjecture is wrong.


I haven't kept up with Gunderson's analysis(s) although I have held a similar view that the added boost apparent in the #3 explosion footage came from a steam explosion created when a momentary criticality injected a burst of joules of heat into the pond.

Originally, I assumed that most of the contents of the FP were disgorged into the rising cloud, but after becoming more familiar with the quantity of material around the site (despite Tepco's unwillingness to actually disclose with any clarity what is there) I can see that there probably isn't enough hot material around the site to account for the entire contents of the FP.

But it isn't necessary for a criticality to have happened at the bottom of the pool, it could have occurred at any level of the rods. That something provided an added boost to the #3 explosion is seen beyond a doubt in the video, to my eyes.

That "the boost" came from the fuel pond is obvious from the video of the later wreckage. The pattern of wreckage of the roof joists makes that clear. And with the equipment crane lying directly over the containment vessel we know the blast could not have come from the reactor containment.

When I view the few seconds of the video you indicated which shows the round objects that could possibly be the tops of fuel rods in the pond, I do have to pause and look again to what happened to provide the source of energy for that boost - while the video doesn't actually confirm that there are fuel rods remaining in the position they were originally stored, it does suggest that possibility.

The salient event in the #3 explosion is the very directional blast seen rising up from the #3 building which I can have no doubt was a vectored blast.

In fact, there seems little doubt that it was a vectored steam explosion, as opposed to a more violent detonation. A steam explosion would be expected to cause the "slower" release of energy than what a chemical explosion or a fast criticality would provide and that is what we see in the video.

Thus, the basic premise remains unchanged.

The source of energy for that vertical blast originated in or just above the fuel pond, to say otherwise is akin to saying that there was no 500 meter vertical blast and that the chunks of heavy material seen coming off the column at about the 300 meter level were just some kind of illusion.

But that's not so.

So, how can I justify the criticality theory with the (possible) evidence of intact fuel rods (2) in the pond becomes the question of the day.

Obviously, the first theory would be that those round shapes are not what they appear to be, and that is quite possible.

Another way to approach the problem is to look closer at what a criticality event might have looked like. Would it be possible that a localized criticality created a steam pocket which ejected only some material?

The reason I struggle with these theories is simply because something beyond an explosion of hydrogen/oxygen gasses in open air sent that column of steam and debris skyward.

The original hydrogen blast can be seen to have been vectored southward (and upward) in the first few milliseconds of the event. This was followed by a less visible excursion to the north which was obscurred by smoke. Thus, the original blast was vectored in a south/north direction by the "cattle chute", it also sent some of its energy upward, that is visible in the stop action videos of the explosion.

But I can see no possible way that original blast could have been vectored straight up.

There was a second application of energy which was vectored skyward, that could only have come from the pond.

I am also in a discussion with Jorge Stolfi. Let's see how that develops.
 
  • #9,555
etudiant said:
Very clever!
While the closed circuit shot says "Live", there is no way to prove that it is not put through an edit loop, to censor undesirable images before they get broadcast. An earthquake is hard to plan for, however, so it should show whether the video is real time or not.
Unfortunately, I could not reconcile the time lines in your videos, so the status is till up in the air, whether it is real time or not. Have you come to a conclusion on this issue?

I don't spend much time pondering sophisticated censorship by TEPCO in terms of editing, rather I expect that if any circumstances arise that they do not want to show, they will just switch the feed off completely. The time delay of some 30 seconds is freely acknowledged by TEPCO, and apart from possible technical reasons for this, that would give them a buffer to pull the feed before we saw the start of the unexpected event taking place, but I'll cross that bridge if we ever come to it.

I haven't tried too hard to line the TEPCO timestamp up with reality, there are differences between the time my devices tell me is now, the TEPCO timestamp, and the time that earthquakes are reported to happen, but they seem to be well within a minute of each other so I don't fret it. Plus I have no idea how long it can take earthquakes to be felt in locations a bit away from the epicentre, (any takers on this?), nor whether the webcam is only visibly affected by certain kinds of earthquake motion and not others.
 
  • #9,556
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/10_26.html
 
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  • #9,557
This doesn't look like steam/fog ?
[PLAIN]http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/5008/40726091.jpg
 
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  • #9,558
Bioengineer01 said:
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/10_26.html
I'm going to ask publicly that people please not post uncommented links. Even a *very* short sentence fragment about what is of interest there is much better than nothing. Or just copy and paste a bit. Thanks :)

Unless I missed something, this is old news on this thread and already covered in much more detail (maps of readings):
"The workers withdrew after measuring radiation of 100 millisieverts per hour near the reactor's containment vessel."
"TEPCO says it intended to limit the workers' exposure to below 5 millisieverts per hour. But as all 9 received higher doses, it has suspended work while considering a course of action."
 
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  • #9,559
elektrownik said:
This doesn't look like steam/fog ?
[PLAIN]http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/5008/40726091.jpg[/QUOTE]


Maybe that's an optical illusion. Right behind the plume is the third exhaust stack. It's possible that because of that the plume appears darker.
 
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  • #9,560
TEPCO 10th, early 40s, male workers of the subcontractors working at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station, became unconscious in the dormitory, announced that the city was taken to hospital by helicopters Iwaki
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yomiuri.co.jp%2Ffeature%2F20110316-866921%2Fnews%2F20110610-OYT1T00597.htm
 
  • #9,561
"""So, how can I justify the criticality theory with the (possible) evidence of intact fuel rods (2) in the pond becomes the question of the day."""

you might read up on criticality,

http://www.if.uidaho.edu/~gunner/ME443-543/LectureNotes/ReactorPhysics.pdf

i did and abandoned the idea for a pool with so little fuel in it.

did anyone ever hear what was location of the worker fatalities in that explosion?

i have looked but to no avail.
 
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  • #9,562
100,000,000 becquerels per cubic centimeter of radioactivity estimated for Fukushima sludge
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110610p2a00m0na010000c.html

this is 100 Terabecquerels per cubic meter~!
 
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  • #9,563
SteveElbows said:
I don't spend much time pondering sophisticated censorship by TEPCO in terms of editing, rather I expect that if any circumstances arise that they do not want to show, they will just switch the feed off completely. The time delay of some 30 seconds is freely acknowledged by TEPCO, and apart from possible technical reasons for this, that would give them a buffer to pull the feed before we saw the start of the unexpected event taking place, but I'll cross that bridge if we ever come to it.

I haven't tried too hard to line the TEPCO timestamp up with reality, there are differences between the time my devices tell me is now, the TEPCO timestamp, and the time that earthquakes are reported to happen, but they seem to be well within a minute of each other so I don't fret it. Plus I have no idea how long it can take earthquakes to be felt in locations a bit away from the epicentre, (any takers on this?), nor whether the webcam is only visibly affected by certain kinds of earthquake motion and not others.

The horse is out of the barn and we're watching pictures of the empty stall and arguing if it live or memorex. If anything happens I will wait for the inevitable release of the recorded clips. If people are really watching this live cam hours every day, I hope they can get back to their lives in a few years.
 
  • #9,564
Bioengineer01 said:
100,000,000 becquerels per cubic centimeter of radioactivity estimated for Fukushima sludge
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110610p2a00m0na010000c.html

this is 100 Terabecquerels per cubic meter~!

Well, it's to be expected. The radioactive materials won't disappear if you send all that water in the basement through AREVAs reprocessing facility.
That's the waste which'll be produced.
 
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  • #9,565
jim hardy said:
"""So, how can I justify the criticality theory with the (possible) evidence of intact fuel rods (2) in the pond becomes the question of the day."""

you might read up on criticality,

http://www.if.uidaho.edu/~gunner/ME443-543/LectureNotes/ReactorPhysics.pdf

i did and abandoned the idea for a pool with so little fuel in it.

did anyone ever hear what was location of the worker fatalities in that explosion?

i have looked but to no avail.

Fatalities that I am aware of included a crane operator at Daini, a heart attack, and the two workers drowned or smashed in the trubine building during the tsunami. I may have missed a report, but don't think any of the reports 11 (unit 3) + 4 (unit 1) explosion injuries were fatal.
 
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  • #9,566
NUCENG said:
I may have missed a report, but don't think any of the reports 11 (unit 3) + 4 (unit 1) explosion injuries were fatal.

There were rumours of six fatalities in the Unit 3 explosion event. But I never saw an official confirmation.

Still it's a miracle that nobody died in the Unit 1 explosion. They must've been in the middle of setting up the portable power generators and wiring the Units when number one went airborne and wrecked those generators and wires.
 
  • #9,567
NUCENG said:
If people are really watching this live cam hours every day, I hope they can get back to their lives in a few years.

I would not be surprised if some people are. Personally I think I would go nutty if I spent hours watching it per day, minutes is hard enough going. I tune in live once in a while but get bored after a minute or two, and I skim those sped up videos someone is putting on youtube to see if anything interesting has happened. If it were not for those youtube videos then the only thing Id have spotted to date, apart from the usual steam and camera wobbles due to earthquakes, would be a couple of animals, a few instances of vehicle lights at night, a few unidentified animals and a person who I caught out of the corner of my eye while not even watching the stream properly one day, which gave me quite a fright for half a second.
 
  • #9,568
""I may have missed a report, but don't think any of the reports 11 (unit 3) + 4 (unit 1) explosion injuries were fatal.""

thanks Nuceng

and i shouldn't have made that claim from memory. I could easily be wrong.

i thought i recalled four fatalities in the unit 3 blast

but my memory is not infallible, will research it again for myself.

sorta like in this video >>Note not nuclear related, older folks will appreciate it most<<

 
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  • #9,569
If only there was some way to put a camera on each part of the plant. A good one.
 
  • #9,570
my mistake,,,
the four fatalities were at a coal plant...

http://www.ocala.com/article/20110404/ZNYT03/104043000

"Four other workers died at Tokyo Electric’s Hitachinaka thermal power plant when they fell from the chimneys they were working on."

sorry

--- forgot to engage brain before typing -
slip of the fingers
old jim
 

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