News Jet Blue Maintenance Outsourced to El Salvador

[edward]

Jet Blue is outsourcing maintenance to El Salvador

145 People traveling on Jet Blue can thank a skilled pilot for avoiding what could have been a tragedy yesterday.

Jet Blue is one of the airlines which out sources the maintenance of its planes to unlicensed mechanics in El Salvador.

http://www.news10.net/storyfull2.aspx?storyid=13225

 

[Pengwuino]

Oddly enough... want to take a guess at what their original emergency landing site was going to be before LAX?

Yup, can't throw politics into everything now can you...

 

[Evo]

Edward, no where in that article does it say anything about plane maintenance. Where did you read about maintenance?

 

[Pengwuino]

And i'll spoil the fun. Original emergency landing site (according to the news at the time so may not be accurate) was the JetBlue maintanence facility in ... burbank?

But then again they may have meant the maintenence facility at JFK... now I am kinda confused.

 

[TRCSF]

I'm not getting into the outsourcing issue...

I just think the highly trained flight attendants also deserve credit for their role in protecting the passengers in an emergency landing.

(Oh, fyi, Northwest is planning on laying off 1400 American flight attendants and outsourcing at least some of them to East Asians.)

 

[Pengwuino]

Yah... too bad you can't have highly paid skillful employs right after you just filed bankruptcy.

Airline industry is a pretty dumb place to play those kinda political blame games. Not exactly a thriving industry.

 

[Evo]

I'm not getting into the outsourcing issue...

I just think the highly trained flight attendants also deserve credit for their role in protecting the passengers in an emergency landing.

(Oh, fyi, Northwest is planning on laying off 1400 American flight attendants and outsourcing at least some of them to East Asians.)

I see where they are laying off the flight attendants, but I don't see where they are hiring anyone to replace them. Do you have a link?

 

[Pengwuino]

They are probably replacing them on international flights.

I find it funny that since the media fooled everyone into thinken outsourcing was a new phenomenon, everything has to be turned political and called outsourcing. I wonder if anyone has any proof that the Jetblue JFK facility doesn't exist and that all maintanence work is being done in el salvador.

 

[TRCSF]

I see where they are laying off the flight attendants, but I don't see where they are hiring anyone to replace them. Do you have a link?

No, sorry, I caught it on CNN when I was leaving work this morning.

 

[TRCSF]

They are probably replacing them on international flights.

I find it funny that since the media fooled everyone into thinken outsourcing was a new phenomenon, everything has to be turned political and called outsourcing. I wonder if anyone has any proof that the Jetblue JFK facility doesn't exist and that all maintanence work is being done in el salvador.

You're right, outsourcing has been around for decades. Why, back in the eighties GM laid off a bunch of American workers and moved the plants to Mexico (and wrote themselves fat checks).

If it's good enough for Flynt, Michigan, it's good enough for the rest of the country.

 

[Evo]

I blame unions for a large portion of the outsourcing done. Unions tend be be incredibly short sighted and stupid.

The demand by American consumers for ever cheaper services led to the outsourcing of technical support jobs. American workers that were willing to work for minimum wage usually weren't smart enough to do the job. Americans have no one to blame but themselves for what has happened to jobs here.

 

[edward]

Edward, no where in that article does it say anything about plane maintenance. Where did you read about maintenance?

Almost all, of Jet Blues maintenance is done in El Salvador. Most of the Airlines are outsourcing maintenance. Few of El Salvador's mechanics are FAA certified. And it was such a cute picture with that planes nose wheels pointing sideways, I just couldn't resist.
I started a thread on airline maintenance outsourcing sometime back.

The big throrn I am my side is the jobs we are losing. But then we always have Walmart and McDonalds.

By Mark Skertic
Tribune staff reporter
Published August 31, 2005


United Airlines said Tuesday that it will shift heavy maintenance of its Boeing 777 aircraft to a Chinese company, part of an effort by the airline to lower its labor costs.

Over the next five years, Ameco Beijing will service all of the 777s in United's fleet. The first work is scheduled to begin in

For every plane they service we get an extra eggroll , But we lose a lot of Jobs.

 

[Evo]

The big throrn I am my side is the jobs we are losing.

Get rid of the unions. They protect the jobs of the incompetant. They prevent their workers from doing their jobs to the best of their ability. Ever work for a company that had union workers? The union will have the company agree to allot a certain length of time to a type of job function. So, employee A gets a job order, she's not busy and could get it done in 2 hours, but if she does that, and does it often, then the union won't be able to justify that length of time from the company, so instead of working, employee A eats donuts, calls into radio contests, talks to friends on the phone, shops online, then right before her 72 hours is up she'll pick up the work order. Of course she won't understand it and will reject it back asking for clarification, which starts the whole process over again. I've seen projects that should have been completed in two days take 8 months due to union workers...consistently. The workers are told this gives them job security. This is financial death for a company.

 

[Pengwuino]

United Airlines said Tuesday that it will shift heavy maintenance of its Boeing 777 aircraft to a Chinese company, part of an effort by the airline to lower its labor costs.

I'm not sure how the claim "Almost all, of Jet Blues maintenance is done in El Salvador." is verified by a different company sending a fraction of its aircraft maintenance jobs to a Chinese company.

 

[Smurf]

"Get rid of the unions" is far too simple. Then it would be balanced back to pre-union times when workers could be exploited far too easily. The problem is there are now unions that encompass many businesses. It's companies that are too big for unions, like McDonalds, and unions that are too big for a small business to handle that cause problems. Meh. Capitalist flaw. You could try to balance union power and business power... you could try.

 

[Evo]

"Get rid of the unions" is far too simple. Then it would be balanced back to pre-union times when workers could be exploited far too easily. The problem is there are now unions that encompass many businesses. It's companies that are too big for unions, like McDonalds, and unions that are too big for a small business to handle that cause problems. Meh. Capitalist flaw. You could try to balance union power and business power... you could try.

Most successful companies are non-union and the employess are actually happier (in my experience, don't know if actual studies have been made). There are labor laws now to protect workers that didn't exist before unions. Unions had a purpose at one time, they've outlived their purpose.

Of course unions are major problems in the airline and automotive industries IMHO. Outsourcing tech support and customer service is part of the drive by consumers for lower cost products and services and by shareholders for larger profits.

 

[Pengwuino]

The one thing we all need to realize is that everything business does is our fault. Sure they outsource tech support but no one seems to protesting the ol capitalist way by not purchasing goods from that company. Its nice to fatten up your profit margin by outsourcing but they do it because they know consumers really don't care enough to put their money where their mouth is. If they thought doing so would cut into sales... well what's the point of increasing your profit margin if you lose 30% of your sales globally.

I agree with Evo though... one, because she's so dreamy :!) :!) :!)

And two because "exploitation" in the 20's and the year 2000 is a vastly different idea. In the 20s, its dangerous work, a few cents a day of work, physical abuse, etc. In the year 2000, "exploitation" is paying people only 50x the internatioanl poverty limit instead of 55x or not having ergonomic seating (exagerations but isn't far off from the correct comparison).

 

[edward]

I'm not sure how the claim "Almost all, of Jet Blues maintenance is done in El Salvador." is verified by a different company sending a fraction of its aircraft maintenance jobs to a Chinese company.

yes 70% is a fraction isn't it? The Jet Blue facility at JFK is officially called a "technical operations campus" Which basically means that we still get to wash the planes and check the tire pressure, but nothing in the line of heavy maintenance is done.

The Union for Northwest mechanics allowed that airline to outsource heavy maintenance several years ago. And the heavy maintenance ,engine rebuilding ect, is the lions share of the cost of maintenance. Using Northwest, and the unions as a constant justification for outsourcing is casting a blind eye on the reality that this country is being run by big business, for big business.

Airlines Outsourcing More Maintenance
January 22, 2005
Their business plans differ in many ways, but there's one area where major airlines and their cut-rate competitors agree: maintenance is a lot cheaper when it's performed by lower-paid mechanics working for outsourcers. JetBlue, Southwest, America West, Northwest and United are among the carriers who outsource major maintenance of their aircraft to contractors in other countries, according to a report in The Wall Street Journal.

• As JetBlue's new A320 Airbus fleet ages, aircraft are sent to a repair hub in El Salvador;
• America West also sends its jets to El Salvador;
• Southwest has always outsourced its major maintenance;
• US Airways mechanics agreed Friday to pay cuts and the outsourcing of 2,000 mechanics jobs;
• Northwest sends its wide-body jets to Singapore and Hong Kong;
• Bankrupt United Airlines recently won union approval to begin using outside contractors for heavy maintenance.

It wasn't long ago that major airlines employed their own highly-skilled mechanics, each with his or her own Federal Aviation Administration license. The mechanics, who often studied for two years before taking the test, could make $60 or more per hour.

Mechanics working for outsourcers don't have to be licensed. Only supervisors are required to hold FAA licenses and are responsible for oversight of the mechanics, who in countries like El Salvador may make $10 to $20 per hour.

Is this endangering long-term safety of the U.S. commercial fleet? The airlines say no but others aren't sure.

Last year, investigators found that deficient maintenance by an outside vendor was partly to blame for the 2003 crash of a commuter flight in Charlotte, N.C. that killed 21 people.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/printme.php?url=/news04/2005/airline_maintenance.html

 

[Pengwuino]

Hmm... JetBlue's fleet is not exactly aging (one of their tactics is to have as new of aircraft in operation as possible) and your opinion on what the JFK site doesn't really hold water.

Thank you

 

[Evo]

It appears Blue outsources 63% which is not as high as several other airlines. http://www.amtonline.com/publication/article.jsp?pubId=1&id=1713

This article is dated 8-8-05.

 

[edward]

Outsourcing tech support and customer service is part of the drive by consumers for lower cost products and services and by shareholders for larger profits.

I was on hold on the phone this morning for 40 minutes waiting for some guy in India to pick up. I guess I should just chalk that one up in the "larger profits for shareholders column."

 

[Pengwuino]

I was on hold on the phone this morning for 40 minutes waiting for some guy in India to pick up. I guess I should just chalk that one up in the "larger profits for shareholders column."

Stop buying/using their service then.

 

[Evo]

I was on hold on the phone this morning for 40 minutes waiting for some guy in India to pick up. I guess I should just chalk that one up in the "larger profits for shareholders column."

Yep, sounds like the company you do business with is too cheap to hire enough people to handle their call volume.

 

[edward]

Hmm... JetBlue's fleet is not exactly aging (one of their tactics is to have as new of aircraft in operation as possible.

You got the idea now. Guess where they keep those aircraft when not in use. Hmmm let me see now...could it be, A ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT HANGER at JFK called the technical operations campus.

You kids won't see the light until there is no light left to turn on.

 

[Pengwuino]

Wow, are you trying to argue in my favor? Thanks.

I'm sure successful airliners thrive off of grounded aircraft.

 

[edward]

Stop buying/using their service then.

Yeah smarty pants, it is a product that was made in China, sold in the USA and the tech service is in India. I should have known better.

 

[Pengwuino]

yes you should have. No ones forcing you to put up with it.

 

[edward]

yes you should have. No ones forcing you to put up with it.

The problem is that when you buy a product, there is no way to know that the support services is in Bangalore. And if it isn't in Bangalore today it probably will be next week.

 

[edward]

Yep, sounds like the company you do business with is too cheap to hire enough people to handle their call volume.

Most companies are anymore.

 

[Smurf]

yes 70% is a fraction isn't it?

Yes, 70% can be expressed in the fraction 70/100, or 7/10.

 

[Pengwuino]

The problem is that when you buy a product, there is no way to know that the support services is in Bangalore. And if it isn't in Bangalore today it probably will be next week.

Well you can stop buying from them... tell friends not to buy from them (especially if its a infrequent purchase)... etc etc.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

The problem is that when you buy a product, there is no way to know that the support services is in Bangalore. And if it isn't in Bangalore today it probably will be next week.

It's called being a responsable consumer. Do you not check up on the customer service and satisfaction of the products that you buy before you perchase them? If not, that's your own fault. It's pretty easy to do now considering that you have the internet at your disposal.

 

[edward]

It appears Blue outsources 63% which is not as high as several other airlines. http://www.amtonline.com/publication/article.jsp?pubId=1&id=1713

This article is dated 8-8-05.

From this article is a sub link:

It seems that the FAA inspectors who inspect domestic and foreign aircraft maintenance facilities are union workers. I did not know that. No wonder we have such an enormous budget deficit. I'll bet we could get a better deal by hiring Chinese inspectors, and firing all of those lazy, lame, coffee guzzling civil serpants

The Professional Airways Systems Specialists (PASS) is the union that represents more than 12,000 employees of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Department of Defense (DoD). Our members are dedicated to certifying the safety and the efficiency of the National Airspace System (NAS); maintaining and supporting this nation’s air traffic control system with the utmost professionalism; and ensuring the integrity, the reliability, and the safety of the commercial and general aviation industries. Whenever you fly, the work our members do behind the scenes helps you get there safely.

http://www.passnational.org/Public/what_is_pass_.html

 

[Pengwuino]

Yes, 70% can be expressed in the fraction 70/100, or 7/10.

Smurf sucks 10/10 times

 

[edward]

Yes, 70% can be expressed in the fraction 70/100, or 7/10.

Thanks Smurf, I hope you did't strain any brain cells figuring that out. I thought it was 22/30 or 11/15

 

[loseyourname]

From this article is a sub link:

It seems that the FAA inspectors who inspect domestic and foreign aircraft maintenance facilities are union workers. I did not know that. No wonder we have such an enormous budget deficit. I'll bet we could get a better deal by hiring Chinese inspectors, and firing all of those lazy, lame, coffee guzzling civil serpants

Ha, the only thing worse than a union worker is a government worker. My dad gets $70K a year to sit in a truck reading the newspaper 90% of the time. I have to admit, though, last time I was in a union, I had no problem with it. Even though I ended up being downsized.

 

[Smurf]

Thanks Smurf, I hope you did't strain any brain cells figuring that out. I thought it was 22/30 or 11/15

Elementry my dear watson.

 

[loseyourname]

By the way - of all the airlines you could criticize, why Jet Blue? They're about the only airline left that still turns a profit and doesn't drain taxpayer funds. They've got pretty nice planes, good service, and their fares are very cheap. They've allowed college kids that don't have much money, such as myself, to fly across the country comfortably many times.

 

[Pengwuino]

By the way - of all the airlines you could criticize, why Jet Blue? They're about the only airline left that still turns a profit and doesn't drain taxpayer funds. They've got pretty nice planes, good service, and their fares are very cheap. They've allowed college kids that don't have much money, such as myself, to fly across the country comfortably many times.

Politics. Something goes wrong, have to immediately make it a political blame-game. Figure out a way to push your agenda and all.

 

[EnumaElish]

With unions, outsourcing, bankruptcy, deregulation and actual or potential terrorism, airlines are still far safer than driving. I am not seeing a wave of criticism against the auto industry, though, political or otherwise. What is it that makes the 10,000s of auto accident related deaths every year an ordinary fact of life ("sh*t happens") but when a plane has a flat tire everybody is all over it?

 

[Pengwuino]

Yah its safer then pretty much anything else.

Problem is that in auto accidents, its a lot of accidents/period of time with little loss of human life... but when its a plane, its one accident/long period of time with a large loss of life and nothing makes better news then large losses of life.

Hell if we devoted proportional time to deaths in driving, no one would want to drive ever again :D

 

[kat]

I thought the problem with landing gear on this model of airbus had to do with a design issue not maintenance?

 

[Yonoz]

I reckon outsourcing is the product of globalization, more than anything else. There's nothing new about minimizing expenditures. However, long-distance communication has become cheaper and people who rarely meet Westerners speak relatively fair English thanks to the US's successful entertainment industry.
Furthermore, as painful as it is to have to lose jobs in one's country, IMO outsourcing is much more helpful for poorer nations than simply sending them aid. Of course, there will always be criticism of where the saved capital goes, but that should really go in another thread, shouldn't it?

 

[EnumaElish]

We like cheap air travel. We don't like jobs outsourced to poor nations. We don't really care how airlines reduce their fares. And we don't like illegal immigrants pouring into our borders.

The logical conclusion is that the average wage (incl. benefits) must be too high in the U.S. relative to other countries! Reduce the wages and you solve all of the above.

And a higher U.S. unemployment rate should help, too. (Is this too cycnical for the crybabies? Can their hearts take it? U.S. healtcare system and crisis prevention hotline is here to help!)

While at it, isn't it time that the boomers retired? (Yeah, this is meant for you, too; so stop acting like it isn't.) Let go of them jobs; try life after retirement. How long since you have taken a quiet walk with your life partner? It will be good for you, believe me.

 

[SOS2008]

Ha, the only thing worse than a union worker is a government worker.

That's because they are both -

UNION MEMBERS IN 2004

In 2004, 12.5 percent of wage and salary workers were union members,
down from 12.9 percent in 2003, the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of
Labor Statistics reported today. The union membership rate has steadily
declined from a high of 20.1 percent in 1983, the first year for which
comparable union data are available...

Membership by Industry and Occupation

In 2004, workers in the public sector had a union membership rate more
than four times that of private-sector employees. At 36.4 percent, the
unionization rate for government workers was down slightly from 37.2
percent a year earlier. The rate for private industry workers, at 7.9
percent in 2004, was about half what it had been in 1983. Within the
public sector, local government workers had the highest union membership
rate, 41.3 percent. This group includes several heavily unionized occu-
pations, such as teachers, police officers, and fire fighters. Among
major private industries, transportation and utilities had the highest
union membership rate, at 24.9 percent. Construction (14.7 percent),
information industries (14.2 percent), and manufacturing (12.9 percent)
also had higher-than-average rates. Within the information industry,
telecommunications had a 22.4 percent union membership rate. Financial
activities had the lowest unionization rate in 2004--2.0 percent.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm

We like cheap air travel. We don't like jobs outsourced to poor nations. We don't really care how airlines reduce their fares. And we don't like illegal immigrants pouring into our borders.

The logical conclusion is that the average wage (incl. benefits) must be too high in the U.S. relative to other countries! Reduce the wages and you solve all of the above.

And a higher U.S. unemployment rate should help, too. (Is this too cycnical for the crybabies? Can their hearts take it? U.S. healtcare system and crisis prevention hotline is here to help!)

While at it, isn't it time that the boomers retired? (Yeah, this is meant for you, too; so stop acting like it isn't.) Let go of them jobs; try life after retirement. How long since you have taken a quiet walk with your life partner? It will be good for you, believe me.

Wages can only be reduced if Cost of Living is reduced. And let's hope the baby boomers keep working and paying into Social Security for as long as they can, eh?

American workers need to provide a high-level product/service equivalent to their pay. This is the problem. Companies out source not just because of the cheap labor, but because the quality of product/service remains acceptable, sometimes even at higher levels. We need to produce a better labor force, particularly high-tech, science, medical, etc.

In the meantime, loyalty is gone between companies and employees, pride in a job well done, etc. So many here in the U.S. try to get ahead with ploys (I'm so tired of the up-sale every where I go, the bait and switch, etc.) and other such means instead of providing good products/services, making an honest living and getting ahead with investment, entrepreneurial risk, etc.

Both companies and workers are responsible, and both need to think about where we are heading.

 

[edward]

And a higher U.S. unemployment rate should help, too. (Is this too cycnical for the crybabies? Can their hearts take it? U.S. healtcare system and crisis prevention hotline is here to help!)

What U.S. healthcare system would you be talking about?? The one with 40 million uninsured working people I would suppose, since that is the only one there is.

 

[edward]

It's called being a responsable consumer. Do you not check up on the customer service and satisfaction of the products that you buy before you perchase them? If not, that's your own fault. It's pretty easy to do now considering that you have the internet at your disposal.

Yea sure blame it all on the consumer; my particular problem was with Chase Manhatten Bank and I had never had a problem until recently. It seems the folks in Bangalore can't figure out the American time zone system. I finally ended up closing out the account in disgust yesterday morning. They called already this morning trying to get me back.

 

[Evo]

I've had excellent service from the Indian help desks, they're knowledgeable, polite, helpful & responsive, I get better service than from the American staffed customer service departments where after holding for 50 minutes you hear the rep laughing and chatting with friends, then they cut you off and you have to dial back in and hold another 50 minutes.

 

[EnumaElish]

What U.S. healthcare system would you be talking about?? The one with 40 million uninsured working people I would suppose, since that is the only one there is.

That's a start, but seemingly the average Joe or Jane is still too expensive not to be outsourced. (All PF'ers are above average, naturally.)

P.S. There is this little fascist/nihilist voice that speaks to me once in a while, and says "all peoples are being governed by the governments they deserve" and "all peoples are getting the health system they deserve." And sometimes I need to try really hard to shut up the little d*ckhead.

 

[loseyourname]

I've had excellent service from the Indian help desks, they're knowledgeable, polite, helpful & responsive, I get better service than from the American staffed customer service departments where after holding for 50 minutes you hear the rep laughing and chatting with friends, then they cut you off and you have to dial back in and hold another 50 minutes.

Personally, I've never experienced good phone service no matter where it's coming from, unless I'm calling directly to store or something. Call centers I've had contact with have been almost uniformly bad - Indian, American, or Martian. (Oh, and I do call directly to my bank when I have a problem, not a call center. Maybe you should switch to a credit union, Ed.)