Joining MENSA - How to Become a Member

[daleg]

whats the point of being a member?

 

[JamesU]

An iq of 135 WILL NOT get you into mensa.
you have to be in the top 2% of the exam you take.

okay then...

 

[hitssquad]

Standard deviations and Mensa entrance requirements

okay then.

UK Mensa does group testing with the Cattell IQ test. The Cattell has a standard deviation of 24, instead of the more typical 15 or 16. At a standard deviation of 24, an IQ score of 135 is not sufficient for entrance into Mensa. You would need an IQ score of 148.
http://www.docker.demon.co.uk/mensa/intro/page4.html

--
Cattell B - 148
Culture Free - 133
Ravens Advanced Matrices 148
Ravens Standard Matrices -131
Wechsler Scales - 132
--

 

[JamesU]

 

[Chi Meson]

whats the point of being a member?

I thought I would find out myself when I joined a while back. Evidently, its a great way to meet people to play Scrabble with, but beyond that...

oh yeah, when you're a member, you can order one of those "M" bumper stickers so that the guy in the car behind you can know he's behind a genius.

 

[Math Is Hard]

faking it

oh yeah, when you're a member, you can order one of those "M" bumper stickers so that the guy in the car behind you can know he's behind a genius.

hmm... y'know, if you've got one of those W bumper stickers you could just pull it off and stick it back on upside down.

 

[JamesU]

or you could get the MENSA logo and make a bumper sticker

 

[Art]

whats the point of being a member?

Well first off, apart from being a useful tool in self appraisement it's not a bad thing to have on your CV and secondly it presents members with an opportunity to socialise with other members of the club with whom they have something in common. British Mensa organises regular social get-togethers at both local and national level for those who wish to participate and also hosts SIGs (special interest groups) so if you are looking to correspond with other people about building model aircraft for example, it is easy to do; although this capability is probably largely redundant with the predominance of the internet these days.
Unfortunately Mensa always seems to attract a lot of negative comments from non-members who see it as an elitist organisation although it seems these negative comments emanate far more rarely from people who fulfil the membership requirements.

 

[LeonhardEuler]

I don't think the complaint is that its an elitist organisation. I think the point is that its main function is to stroke the egos of its members. I don't know of any prominent scientist who was or is a member of mensa. The requirement says nothing about how much you actually have accomplished. It is just about your ability to solve silly puzzles.

Unfortunately Mensa always seems to attract a lot of negative comments from non-members who see it as an elitist organisation although it seems these negative comments emanate far more rarely from people who fulfil the membership requirements.

I have never taken an IQ test, but I doubt that I would be held out of mensa. I got a 1530 on the SAT's which is well over the 99th percentile. There are probably people who complain about mensa just out of soreness, but that doesn't mean that is always the reason, even when the person complaining is below the requirements. Even the one practical function you gave for belonging to mensa is better served by the internet. Actually, probably much better served because if you want to build an airplane, most of the people you will meet at mensa do not know how to build one. They could be ESL teachers, for instance.

 

[Townsend]

Unfortunately Mensa always seems to attract a lot of negative comments from non-members who see it as an elitist organisation although it seems these negative comments emanate far more rarely from people who fulfil the membership requirements.

Thats strange...I have never heard anyone make a negative comment about Mensa except the memebers. You know, like Isaac Asimov...

 

[Art]

Thats strange...I have never heard anyone make a negative comment about Mensa except the memebers. You know, like Isaac Asimov...

lol what's really strange is you saying that directly following a negative post from a non-member of Mensa. Seriously though I have no idea how well Mensa is organised and ran in the US but British Mensa is a pretty professional club.

p.s. Asimov hated Mensa so much he was their international president. I don't know if you have read his autobiographical works but Asimov was by his own admission a supreme egotist. His supposed criticism of mensa comes from a comment he made (probably in jest) that people in the club argued with him.

 

[Art]

I don't think the complaint is that its an elitist organisation. I think the point is that its main function is to stroke the egos of its members.

It certainly isn't to stroke member's egos. If that was the case why be a small fish in a big pool? Better to join a club full of dopes and lord it over them.

I don't know of any prominent scientist who was or is a member of mensa.

Which maybe just proves the point it is not about ego. Most members of Mensa don't publish the fact in case they are accused of showing off.

The requirement says nothing about how much you actually have accomplished. It is just about your ability to solve silly puzzles.

Mensa doesn't claim to be about accomplishment not least because individuals' ideas of what constitutes accomplishment are so varied it would be impossible to quantify in any meaningful way. As for 'silly puzzles' IQ tests measure your potential ability for problem solving, a useful skill in all facets of life. Mensa literature is the first to acknowledge that this is only a part of what makes a person and freely acknowledges that it says nothing about their application or emotional stability etc..

I have never taken an IQ test, but I doubt that I would be held out of mensa. I got a 1530 on the SAT's which is well over the 99th percentile.

So why not try and join then? At least then you could evaluate it first hand and if you don't like what you find you could then criticize it from a position of strength.

There are probably people who complain about mensa just out of soreness, but that doesn't mean that is always the reason, even when the person complaining is below the requirements. Even the one practical function you gave for belonging to mensa is better served by the internet. Actually, probably much better served because if you want to build an airplane, most of the people you will meet at mensa do not know how to build one. They could be ESL teachers, for instance.

I don't understand why people who are not members feel the need to criticize Mensa? With so many clubs in the world why single out Mensa? The club is totally apolitical and never makes any opinionated statements on anything so what is there to criticise? I think you must agree the suspicion is that there is a large slice of begrudgery involved?

 

[Evo]

Because MENSA members have a reputation for being obnoxious, pretentious snobs. The people that join and "stay" seem to actually be insecure, and have a need for external validation. Yes, I could have been a member, I was tested at age 11 at my teacher's insistence, I was told my IQ was 185. I still think it was only 158, whatever, I just read a lot when I was little, think logically, and do very well on tests. Intellectually, I can't hold a candle to most of the people here.

The school was a bit freaked out, called my parents in and told them they did not recommend me staying in the public school system as they didn't have programs that could challenge me. (this after years of taking my books away from me so I wouldn't get ahead of the rest of the class) They gave my parents brochures to special schools for the "academically able", you had to have a 140 minimum IQ to even be considered. I didn't want to go to one, I was jumped around, completed high school at the age of 14, went to Europe to visit family for a year, came back and started college at 16.

 

[JamesU]

: you could join MENSA and kick bill gates right in the face!

 

[honestrosewater]

hmm... y'know, if you've got one of those W bumper stickers you could just pull it off and stick it back on upside down.

Eek! Fortunately, they aren't clever enough to think of this on their own.

Just joking, Bush people [/size]

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The school was a bit freaked out, called my parents in and told them they did not recommend me staying in the public school system

Mine got the same call but for different reasons.

 

[hitssquad]

Cattell B - 148
Culture Free - 133
Ravens Advanced Matrices 148
Ravens Standard Matrices -131
Wechsler Scales - 132

Here is a handy IQ-conversion calulator:
davidpbrown.co.uk/psychology/iq-conversion.html

 

[Evo]

Mine got the same call but for different reasons.

It's the gray skin...

 

[Math Is Hard]

Eek! Fortunately, they aren't clever enough to think of this on their own.

Just joking, Bush people [/size]

Thank you! I had the set up -- but just couldn't quite find the punch line!

Overall, I feel ambivalent about Mensa. It is a social club, and for some people it is very meaningful and it seems to enhance their lives. I have several friends who have joined and they have told me that the main reason they continue membership is that it looks good on their resumes. If it helps them professionally(or even socially), I think that it's valuable, and I am glad they maintain membership. For people who are joining out of some type of self-esteem issue, I think that this is unfortunate, because they may not find the rewards or respect in life that they feel are due to them based on their "special" test scores.

Personally, I've always wished there were some "good deeds" club where I could apply for membership. I am much more concerned with my goodness quotient than my intelligence quotient. OK, they'd probably reject my first few applications, but I can always improve, right?

 

[Evo]

Overall, I feel ambivalent about Mensa. It is a social club, and for some people it is very meaningful and it seems to enhance their lives. I have several friends who have joined and they have told me that the main reason they continue membership is that it looks good on their resumes. If it helps them professionally(or even socially), I think that it's valuable, and I am glad they maintain membership.

As for employment, I can't imagine an employer that would give preference to someone that would list being a MENSA member on their resume, it will more likely get their resume tossed into the round file. It means nothing to an employer. They need to go out and read about resumes and what counts and what doesn't. I've been on the hiring end of a Fortune 500 company and stuff like that isn't even looked at.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I don't think any of them mention it in the experience or qualification section of their resumes, but they put it down under "Hobbies and Interests" at the end of the document. Still, they seem to think it gives them an edge.

Whether or not that's true - who knows? The HR folks may not even read that far.

 

[Evo]

I don't think any of them mention it in the experience or qualification section of their resumes, but they put it down under "Hobbies and Interests" at the end of the document. Still, they seem to think it gives them an edge.

Whether or not that's true - who knows? The HR folks may not even read that far.

Professional resumes really should not even list "hobbies and interests", that's mostly filler for people just out of school that have no real experience and isn't even considered. It just looks better if you have something typed to the end of a page, half page long resumes don't look good. And maybe the HR person shares those interests and reads that and calls you in because of it, possible, but realistically, not likely to land you a job.

 

[hitssquad]

The exaggeratedness of ultra-high childhood Stanford-Binet scores

I was tested at age 11 at my teacher's insistence, I was told my IQ was 185.

http://www.prometheussociety.org/articles/Outsiders.html

--
CONCEPT MASTERY SCORES ACCORDING TO CHILDHOOD STANFORD-BINET IQ

IQ      N   CMT-T 
135-139 41  114.2 
140-149 344 131.8 
150-159 200 136.5 
160-169 70  146.2 
170+    48  155.8

--


hiqnews.megafoundation.org/Definition_of_IQ.html

--
Wechsler tests yield somewhat lower scores at the higher levels of IQ even after correcting for the 15/16 ratio of their standard deviations. Our own investigations of the relationship between Stanford-Binet IQs and Wechsler IQs suggests that a Wechsler IQ of 155 would correspond to a Stanford-Binet IQ of about 173.
--

 

[Art]

Because MENSA members have a reputation for being obnoxious, pretentious snobs. The people that join and "stay" seem to actually be insecure, and have a need for external validation. Yes, I could have been a member, I was tested at age 11 at my teacher's insistence, I was told my IQ was 185. I still think it was only 158, whatever, I just read a lot when I was little, think logically, and do very well on tests. Intellectually, I can't hold a candle to most of the people here.

It seems strange to me that somebody with such a high IQ should hold such a prejudiced opinion about a group of people they have never met. The same accusations could be levelled against absolutely any club or even country in the world. By definition unless you are actually a member of a club, the members outsiders are most likely to hear are the loud, pushy, obnoxious ones, the silent majority being silent.

Most people in the US have probably never even met a member of Mensa as only 1 in every 6000 people in the US are members. A somewhat larger number than frequents most people's circle of friends and aquaintances and so it would seem that the reputation you speak of is based on hearsay and prejudice.

I'm not suggesting this necessarily applies to you Evo but I do think that perhaps some people who have tested highly once in a DIY IQ test are reluctant to take further validated tests, such as would be required to join mensa, in case they do not do as well as previously. This seems to me to show insecurity on their part and is evidenced by the number of people who decry membership of Mensa and yet take every on line IQ test they can find. If they are really that contemptuous of IQ why bother?

Most people who stay in mensa are there because they enjoy interacting with people who are their intellectual peers as they find the company challenging and interesting. One of the strongest correlations in couples is intelligence; far more so than looks, so is it logical to suggest that people in the top 2% IQ category should not band together in some way such as Mensa?

The school was a bit freaked out, called my parents in and told them they did not recommend me staying in the public school system as they didn't have programs that could challenge me. (this after years of taking my books away from me so I wouldn't get ahead of the rest of the class) They gave my parents brochures to special schools for the "academically able", you had to have a 140 minimum IQ to even be considered. I didn't want to go to one, I was jumped around, completed high school at the age of 14, went to Europe to visit family for a year, came back and started college at 16.

One of the aims of mensa is to provide a support network for gifted children to assist them through what can be a difficult period leading to maturity, to ensure they grow up to realize their potential without becoming socially maladjusted due to the 'barriers' a high IQ can create between them, their teachers and their less 'gifted' playmates.
From the short brief you supplied about your own childhood it sounds as if you would have benefitted from such support?

As for employment, I can't imagine an employer that would give preference to someone that would list being a MENSA member on their resume, it will more likely get their resume tossed into the round file. It means nothing to an employer. They need to go out and read about resumes and what counts and what doesn't. I've been on the hiring end of a Fortune 500 company and stuff like that isn't even looked at.

Obviously it depends on the position the employer is trying to fill but you are not seriously suggesting that a proven ability for problem solving (the key attribute for a manager), should preclude a candidate seeking a management postion? This is prejudice taken to the extreme and if a fortune 500 company HR department exercises a policy of tossing out applications from people with high IQs then senior management seriously needs to look at their HR staff or they will not be a fortune 500 company for very long.

 

[honestrosewater]

Did anyone else read the Outsiders article?
Um, I'm especially interested in whether anyone else has adopted the 'marginal strategy' and still managed to be happy, and if you've spent a lot of time looking for other people 'like you' (and has anyone found them? ).

Oh, and about being in special programs for gifted youth... I was moved from first grade into second and put into the gifted program, and I absolutely loved it! In elementary school, gifted was one day a week (at another school). There was a theme each year (Oceanography, Natural Phenomena, Middle Ages & Renaissance), and we did all sorts of experiments, special projects, went on field trips, and so on, really immersing ourselves in the work. If anyone is worried about putting their kids into these programs, it was a great experience for me, and everyone else in the program seemed to enjoy it just as much as I did. I looked forward to gifted all week long and had no social problems at all in elementary school.
I decided to attend a normal middle school, where gifted was a regular, year-long class replacing Reading and Physical Education. We mostly just read books, and if you weren't interested the book, it was quite boring. My regular classes and even my advanced classes were boring. And when I started having problems at home, school was the first thing that I gave up on. I was kicked out of gifted and eventually expelled and sent to a school for students with behavior problems. When I finally resolved the problems at home and returned to regular school, I was put into remedial classes (presumably, because of my behavior history).
I managed to suffer through the rest of 8th grade, but was still placed in normal or remedial classes in high school - covering things I had already learned years before - seriously. I also missed the chance to choose my electives, so I was in classes, like drama and home economics, which I either had no interest in or already knew about. My algebra teacher managed to get me placed into a few higher classes, but after a couple weeks, I was caught up to everyone else and the pace of the class was still too slow. I was bored out of my mind in school. I started only going to school on Fridays to take the tests and see my friends. I thought maybe if they saw that I could ace the class without needing to actually attend class, they might finally wake up and move me to more appropriate classes. But it didn't happen, and I falied because of my poor attendance. Being now two years behind, with no hint of things improving, and with my still shaky situation at home, I dropped out of high school as soon as possible (on my 16th birthday) to start working.
I still loved learning, but I could do a better job on my own. So being challenged in school can make a huge difference; I went from loving and excelling in school to hating and failing at it. Heck, I'm still worried about not being able to find appropriate classes when I return to school and wasting my time and money going through a system that's inferior to my own and just doesn't work for me. Anywho, long story short: appropriate programs in school were a lifesaver for me.

 

[Smurf]

I'm reading all these people talk about their school stuff and how they were in special programs... I was never in a special program! I was never even in a system that HAD any special programs at all. My story is one of small simplistic low-funded education systems no one was set apart from anyone else and if you didn't get good grades it was because you weren't capable of doing the work. (HA!)
I basically failed at school from the very start... and have only now in my last year of high school managed to conform enough to the system to struggle through with half-decent grades (More B's than C's and nothing below a C - for the first time in my life).
Allegedly (and I say this because I don't remember) I was a pretty good student up until about grade 3. Then they started asking me to memorize stuff. They didn't understand why I could do grade 6 problem solving but couldn't tell them that 9x6=54 without working it out (still can't - I worked it out just now). Grade 9 my parents decided that they'd had enough of Canada, so we moved to Ghana in West Africa. Homeschooled for a year, that was the worst. Then they tried putting me in a Private School on the British System when we moved to the capital. There were 40 kids in my class (bigger than the college courses I will be taking in September) I don't think I ever even learned half my teachers names and certainly didn't learn most of the work, so I failed grade 6, but they let me slide because I seemed capable just 'wasn't applying myself'. I was bored stiff, especially with Math and English. If there's one thing I hate it's repetition and they decided the best way for me to learn was to do the same problems over, and over, and over, and over, ad infinitum. I vaguely recall being put in a special English program for 'underachievers' because that was my worst class.

France wasn't much better, I'd gone from super-large to super-small. The entire faculty was a single digit and my classes never had more than 15 pupils in them, sometimes half that. Again, bored to crap, although I had the greatest Physics and Math teacher ever (wait for it...) Tony Woodcock.
He's the one that first got me interested in the sciences, and I may have done better if they'd had the facilities to actually let me move at my own speed, but the school was waaaay under-funded.

Unlike some (Most?) of you I wasn't much of a reader in my early childhood, didn't really get into it until I discovered (ahhh, I'm embarassed about this) Pierres Anthony, around grade 8. I fell in love with Fiction then, although I don't read Anthony any more.

As for MENSA:
I for one would Looooooove to be in MENSA. Just the chance to be able to analyze the atmosphere it creates, pick it apart, you know? but I'm sure I'll figure out a way to do it without actually joining (I'm very charismatic). Or who knows, I might actually get in.

...

Probably get bored of it after a month or two though, move onto something newer.

 

[honestrosewater]

I'm reading all these people talk about their school stuff and how they were in special programs... [snip] ...He's the one that first got me interested in the sciences, and I may have done better if they'd had the facilities to actually let me move at my own speed, but the school was waaaay under-funded.

Yeah, that sucks. Gifted in elementary school totally rocked - and I got to do special things in regular classes too, like grade papers, work on my own extra projects, and such. It made a huge difference. Did you enjoy learning outside of school?

The same thing happened with me. I took biology in 7th grade and was bored with it, but when I took it again in 9th grade, it was my favorite class - at one point, it was the only class I went to. The teacher made it interesting and moved at a fast pace (I remember everyone else hating the class though).

Unlike some (Most?) of you I wasn't much of a reader in my early childhood, didn't really get into it until I discovered (ahhh, I'm embarassed about this) Pierres Anthony, around grade 8. I fell in love with Fiction then, although I don't read Anthony any more.

I wasn't a big reader until I left school. I think Greek mythology and poetry were the only things I read outside of school. Something about Ancient Greece fascinated me. I spent most of my free time writing, creating, designing, and building things. I still don't like most fiction but read tons of nonfiction.

 

[Smurf]

Yeah, that sucks. Gifted in elementary school totally rocked - and I got to do special things in regular classes too, like grade papers, work on my own extra projects, and such. It made a huge difference. Did you enjoy learning outside of school?

I can't really say I did a lot of learning outside of school early on. Probably the most learning I did pre-9th grade was learning the Trumpet in Band class. Can't really recall much of anything else, I was a troubled kid, didn't really understand how to occupy myself, got bored a lot and made trouble.

I never got to do anything special.

The same thing happened with me. I took biology in 7th grade and was bored with it, but when I took it again in 9th grade, it was my favorite class - at one point, it was the only class I went to. The teacher made it interesting and moved at a fast pace (I remember everyone else hating the class though).

Hehe, I remember loving classes that everyone else hated too.

I wasn't a big reader until I left school. I think Greek mythology and poetry were the only things I read outside of school. Something about Ancient Greece fascinated me. I spent most of my free time writing, creating, designing, and building things. I still don't like most fiction but read tons of nonfiction.

Yeah I fell out of reading fiction last summer really, I'm reading lots of nonfiction now, but I try to sneak in a Terry Prachett once in while just because I enjoy his books so much.

The mythology that I'm really into is the occult stuff, mainly about the monotheistic religions. Greek and Roman kind of led me into it, but that's what I'm reading and writing about now. Fascinating stuff.

 

[honestrosewater]

The mythology that I'm really into is the occult stuff, mainly about the monotheistic religions. Greek and Roman kind of led me into it, but that's what I'm reading and writing about now. Fascinating stuff.

Pfft, I scoff at your one measly god. The Greeks have a god for everything. And as the famous historian Eddie Izzard noted,

The Romans came along with their gods that they had borrowed from the Greeks. They invaded Greece, conquered them and stole all their gods... and renamed them with Roman names, ‘cause the Roman gods before that were kind of crap, you know - Geoff, the god of biscuits, and Simon, the god of hairdos…

Romans.

Christianity is the only monotheistic religion I'm really familiar with, and it doesn't impress me as much. I think the angels, fallen and otherwise, are pretty cool and the whole God v. Satan thing is about as grand as it gets. Jesus and redemption is compelling, but I think looking at Jesus as a regular man is more interesting. Revelation and Psalms were my favorite books. Do you have a favorite story, book, aspect?

 

[Smurf]

Pfft, I scoff at your one measly god. The Greeks have a god for everything. And as the famous historian Eddie Izzard noted,
Romans.

Occultism, Demonology, Necromancy, ect. There's so much good fiction built up around this stuff, and it's really quite interesting because it all has backing in historical beliefs. Look, just go watch Constantine, read some Anne Rice books. It's all great stuff.

Christianity is the only monotheistic religion I'm really familiar with, and it doesn't impress me as much. I think the angels, fallen and otherwise, are pretty cool and the whole God v. Satan thing is about as grand as it gets.

Yeah if you just take it at face value, but Greek mythology is pretty boring too if you just list the deities, what they stand for and who's related to who isn't it! It's mythology, it's meant to be explored.

Do you have a favorite story, book, aspect?

My favorite stories are the ones I write myself