Kepler's 2nd.law and calculation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Kepler's Second Law, specifically in relation to calculating the area swept out by a triangle during orbital motion. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of the area in different contexts, including circular and elliptical orbits.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a formula for the area of a triangle based on the arc length and radius, questioning its correctness.
  • Another participant suggests that the definition of arc length as "arc length in tangential direction" may not hold if the motion is not circular.
  • A different participant notes that Kepler's Second Law implies the conservation of angular momentum, indicating a relationship between angular velocity and radius.
  • One participant mentions that for elliptical orbits, the area calculation is straightforward only at specific points along the major axis, implying that adjustments are needed elsewhere due to the geometry of the orbit.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the application of the area formula in various orbital contexts, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct approach to calculating the area for elliptical orbits.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about the geometry of the orbit, particularly in distinguishing between circular and elliptical motion, as well as the implications of angular momentum conservation.

shounakbhatta
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Hello,

While dealing with Kepler's 2nd.law, when calculating the area of the triangle which sweeps out:


Area of a triangle = 1/2 base x height

Now, we know dθ = dx/r (where dx = arc length, r=radius)

So, dx= rdθ

So, area of a triangle = 1/2 base(rdθ) x height(h)

Is this correct?

Thanks
 
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If dx is defined to be something like an "arc length in tangential direction", yes. It is not the actual arc length if the motion is not circular.
 
Keep in mind that Kepler's Second Law is just another way of saying that angular momentum is conserved. In other words, ##\omega r^2## is a constant. Keeping in mind that for a small section h = r, this is in agreement with what you wrote.
 
Thank you very much for letting me clear the confusion.
 
Hope I'm not going to regenerate the confusion, but for an elliptical orbit there are just two places where the triangle area is given by \frac{1}{2} r\ ds = \frac{1}{2} rv\ dt, and those are the two ends of the major axis. [I'm using ds as infinitesimal portion of arc length, r as distance from focus and v as speed of orbiting body.]

At every other point, r and ds are not perpendicular to each other, so a sine or cosine factor has to be inserted.
 

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