Lagrangian for straight line in XY-plane (dependent on time)

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the formulation of the Lagrangian for a particle moving along a straight line in the XY-plane as a function of time. Participants explore the implications of this formulation in the context of classical mechanics and geodesics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a derivation involving the Lagrangian, suggesting that the ratios of the velocities in the x and y directions are constants, leading to expressions for x(s) and y(s) in terms of the angle α.
  • Another participant questions whether the solution provided is an example of a canonical transformation, indicating a lack of clarity on this concept.
  • A different participant argues against the necessity of using a specific functional to compute geodesics, proposing an alternative approach based on the energy integral and parametric invariance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of certain mathematical formulations in determining geodesics, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of terms used in the discussion, as well as the implications of the proposed transformations and integrals.

lambdajitsu
Messages
2
Reaction score
1
TL;DR
Really stuck on this one. Any help (even a slight nudge in the right direction) would be greatly appreciated. Seems I am hitting a fundamental barrier in the Lagrangian formulation.

Attachments

  • lagrangian.png
    lagrangian.png
    11.4 KB · Views: 305
Physics news on Phys.org
You have that <br /> \frac{d}{dt} \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot q_x} = \frac{d}{dt} \frac{\dot q_x}{\sqrt{\dot q_x^2 + \dot q_y^2}} = \frac{d}{dt} \frac{\dot q_x}{L} = 0. That tells you that \dot q_x/L is a constant. Similarly \dot q_y/L is constant, and since (\dot q_x/L)^2 + (\dot q_y/L)^2 = 1 you can set <br /> \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot q_x} = \frac{\dot q_x}L = \cos \alpha,\qquad <br /> \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot q_y} = \frac{\dot q_y}L = \sin \alpha. But now in terms of arclength s you have <br /> \frac{dx}{ds} = \frac{\dot q_x}{L} = \cos \alpha so x(s) = x_0 + s\cos\alpha and a similar result for dy/ds.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: NTuft, lambdajitsu and (deleted member)
Is your solution above an example of a canonical transformation? I admit I don't quite get it yet, but I'm getting closer. Thank you very much for your help, btw.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: NTuft
Actually, there is no need to use functional ##\int\sqrt{g_{ij}\dot x^i\dot x^j}dt## to compute geodesics. Due to the energy integral ##g_{ij}\dot x^i\dot x^j=const## and parametric invariance , the geodesics can equivalently be determined from the functional
##\int g_{ij}\dot x^i\dot x^jdt##
 
  • Like
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: NTuft, lambdajitsu and (deleted member)

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K