Lingusitics Language fails that make you angry

[zoobyshoe]

Moat - zart. Then again, I speak German so the "z" sound with a "t" in front comes naturally. I also grew up in the midwest, where we say everything correctly.

Sehr Gut!

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Schu - bert.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Schu - bert.

No, that's how "Beethoven" is pronounced. Alternately you might pronounce it "Brahms".

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

No, that's how "Beethoven" is pronounced. Alternately you might pronounce it "Brahms".

Then who is Moe Zart?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Then who is Moe Zart?

http://toontown.wikia.com/wiki/Moe_Zart

 

[vela]

I have often heard it said that a foreigner who formally studied English was likely to have a better grasp of the grammar than a native speaker. It's pretty much a meme. I don't find it to be true except of people who are already very bright to begin with, and already have an enhanced interest in Culture, History, and the Humanities in general.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were true. I learned most of my grammar from taking German in high school.

Speaking of which, how do you Americans posting in this thread pronounce "Mozart"?

I have had my ears pinned back a couple times hearing people pronouncing it exactly as spelled.

I think I've only heard that once, and I mocked that person for doing so.

 

[Jimmy]

Ah am an Amurkin.

hee hee, go Amurka!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyHSjv9gxlE

 

[zoobyshoe]

I wouldn't be surprised if this were true. I learned most of my grammar from taking German in high school.

There are people who've learned English as a second language who could correct most native speakers' English any day. I am not convinced that is the norm, though.

I think I've only heard that once, and I mocked that person for doing so.

I heard a guy say "skizzofrenic" once, instead of "skitsofrenic". That was weird.

 

[KingNothing]

I think non-native speakers may often have a more analytic understanding of English, but I wouldn't say a "better" understanding.

For instance a foreigner might correct you: "Your sentence is wrong because you've started it with a preposition."
While a native might say "It just sounds wrong."

 

[Ivan Seeking]

A lot of men around here go to have their prostrate checked.

Seems to be a local thing.

 

[Andre]

I think there's some truth to this. There are some mistakes that us "foreigners" will never make, such as write "should of" instead of "should have" or "should've".

For instance Dutch and German native tongues will never make an error concerning "ei" or "ie", Like Einstien and they'll pick up errors like that -made by natural Anglophones- immediately. This is simply because there is a big -huge- pronounciation difference between the two in their languages.

Now what about the letter I? I is immensely, gigantically confusing, ironically. when is an I an I and when is it the i in is?

 

[turbo]

A lot of men around here go to have their prostrate checked.

Seems to be a local thing.

Ack! I spend much of my time prostrate! Should I be worried!??

 

[zoobyshoe]

A lot of men around here go to have their prostrate checked.

Seems to be a local thing.

What's his face from that NY cop show had an ongoing "prostrate" problem.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Ack! I spend much of my time prostrate! Should I be worried!??

I don't know, but no one's checking my prostrate. That's for sure.

 

[turbo]

I spend so much time prostrate that I would fear to be have to subject to examination.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I think non-native speakers may often have a more analytic understanding of English, but I wouldn't say a "better" understanding.

For instance a foreigner might correct you: "Your sentence is wrong because you've started it with a preposition."
While a native might say "It just sounds wrong."

I think that's the message of the meme: the foreigner has a much better grasp of the formal grammar.

 

[zoobyshoe]

...I would fear to be have to subject to examination.

You're babbling incoherently, as if someone is checking your prostrate.

 

[turbo]

You're babbling incoherently, as if someone is checking your prostrate.

There it goes again! I could stand getting probed and prodded by attractive young ladies. Old guys with big fingers? Not so much.

 

[zoobyshoe]

There it goes again! I could stand getting probed and prodded by attractive young ladies. Old guys with big fingers? Not so much.

I met this lovely girl who was in med school a couple years back. She went on and on about learning how to check the prostate. Hehe.

At the clinic where I go they pretty much ask you if you want a male or female doctor for any procedure of this nature.

If you want your "prostrate" checked, though, it could be hard to find anyone able to do it.

 

[Jimmy]

At the clinic where I go they pretty much ask you if you want a male or female doctor for any procedure of this nature.

Not being sure of the politically correct choice, I'd probably say, "Surprise me."

 

[zoobyshoe]

Not being sure of the politically correct choice, I'd probably say, "Surprise me."

Hahahahah!

 

[netgypsy]

good choice!

 

[Pythagorean]

The study might have reversed cause and effect, though. It could be that more creative, flexible, etc. people are drawn to learn foreign languages.

Actually quite a bit of universities (and remember the qualifier: educated foreigners) around the world teach their courses in English. Learning two language (English being particularly popular as a second) is just part of the culture for many western countries outside the U.S., it's not so much about being "drawn to". But most of them learn it later (like after 7 or so).

And it's not about creative or flexible; It's about sticking to the formal rules. In fact, a native English speaker might be more flexible and have a better idea of context and slang and just plain social slurs ("ya'll yump to and warsh my clothes" is very much an American dialect. You will not hear very many people learning English as a 2nd language using that kind of dialect). Yet, in much of the US, it's socially acceptable to break the rules (ebonics comes to mind).

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

A language is a dialect with an army and navy.

The originator of this quote is unknown.

 

[Pythagorean]

So a language is a bar fight?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Actually quite a bit of universities (and remember the qualifier: educated foreigners) around the world teach their courses in English. Learning two language (English being particularly popular as a second) is just part of the culture for many western countries outside the U.S., it's not so much about being "drawn to". But most of them learn it later (like after 7 or so).

Good point. I was thinking only in US terms.

And it's not about creative or flexible; It's about sticking to the formal rules. In fact, a native English speaker might be more flexible and have a better idea of context and slang and just plain social slurs ("ya'll yump to and warsh my clothes" is very much an American dialect. You will not hear very many people learning English as a 2nd language using that kind of dialect). Yet, in much of the US, it's socially acceptable to break the rules (ebonics comes to mind).

The article you linked to made the claims I quoted. They weren't talking about linguistic flexibility, per se, but:

...the multilingual shows superior performance in handling complex and demanding problem-solving tasks when compared to monolinguals. They seem to be able to have an advantage in handling certain thinking processes," March continues.

The point I take from that being that the mere ability to speak coherently in a foreign language, not necessarily to pass for a native of Arkansas or the Bronx, makes a person a better thinker and problem solver. According to them.

Some foreigners will do better on an English test than the average American, for sure. What I was saying is that the meme that all of them will is not true in my experience. A lot of educated foreigners have studied English for years and still make wacky grammar mistakes. What you are saying, that many will do better because they stick to the rules and don't adopt the "flexibility" of the average American, is also true.

That's not universal either, though. I've met a lot of foreign exchange students and they are often determined to pick up every bit of slang and natural American speech they can. They want to fit in with the Americans their age.

 

[netgypsy]

I lived and worked out of the US for a couple of years and have the greatest respect for anyone who lives in the US and is not a native English speaker. I made some really dumb mistakes.

By the way, you don't say "quite a BIT of Universties", as BIT means a small single piece of. Like I'll have just a little bit of that dessert. You can say quite a number of , quite a few or just SOME or many universities.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

the clans that banned together

http://news.yahoo.com/fact-checking-debate-iowa-024602587.html
They meant the clans that banded together.

 

[DaveC426913]

"...per say..."

 

[lisab]

http://news.yahoo.com/fact-checking-debate-iowa-024602587.html
They meant the clans that banded together.

I didn't procrastinate at laughing at that.

 

[netgypsy]

it made sense the first time (clans that banned together)

 

[Dembadon]

it made sense the first time (clans that banned together)

While its use in the article still yields a grammatically correct sentence, I don't think it fits the context of the statement.

 

[netgypsy]

darn - I liked it better than banded

I was shopping in a hardware store in a Spanish speaking country and asked for plastic manure instead of plastic wood. When I got some really strange looks I realized my error and probably turned all shades of red.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Past time for pastime. Found it here.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/economy-bad-many-crushing-millennials-163558817.html

 

[russ_watters]

More a science issue than a grammar issue, but I was just at a conference on energy conservation and one speaker kept saying kW instead of kWh. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

Another one that appears to be getting worse is "there".

 

[Andre]

In that same ballpark is "calories". Food of such and such calories. 200 calories is bad 100 calories is better.

But it's not calories, it's kilo calories. But we should go metric and talk kilo Joule.

 

[turbo]

Many people confuse "less" with "fewer", and it bugs me to see news-readers on the TV make that mistake.

 

[WannabeNewton]

This one is so pervasive and it absolutely drives me insane: the use of your instead of you're when appropriate.

 

[Andre]

your kidding Don't lose you're wit.

 

[jtbell]

the use of your instead of you're when appropriate.

I have to admit that's one plus for text-speak, which would be "yr" either way.

 

[WannabeNewton]

your kidding Don't lose you're wit.

hulk smash!

 

[WannabeNewton]

I have to admit that's one plus for text-speak, which would be "yr" either way.

Text speak is so simple yet so powerful

 

[turbo]

Text speak is so simple yet so powerful

How does it handle "there", "they're", "their", and other problems? I want to deal with such misuse, but am unable, due to the sheer volume of errors.

English is probably a tough language, but look at Borek's posts. He writes better than most native-speakers!

 

[JizzaDaMan]

have the greatest respect for anyone who lives in the US and is not a native English speaker.

Care to mention England perhaps? Where English IS the native language.

 

[Andre]

...

It looks like you spelled "Da" wrong.

 

[Curious3141]

"I could care less" which really means "I couldn't care less."

"I could care less" is an ironic (sardonic) phrasing, which is quite acceptable to me. If anything, it emphasises utter disdain even more than the literal phrasing.

 

[vela]

"I could care less" is an ironic (sardonic) phrasing, which is quite acceptable to me. If anything, it emphasises utter disdain even more than the literal phrasing.

I disagree.

http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/care.html

 

[Evo]

I disagree.

http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/care.html

True, the correct saying is "I couldn't care less". It's a put down meaning "I don't give a damn."

The mistaken "i could care less" isn't a put down, it means "I do care" and it's just people hearing and repeating the correct phrase wrong.

 

[Fredrik]

In that same ballpark is "calories". Food of such and such calories. 200 calories is bad 100 calories is better.

But it's not calories, it's kilo calories.

This isn't entirely true. There are two kinds of calories, "gram calories" and "kilogram calories". The former is the energy it takes to heat 1 gram of water by 1 degree Celcius. The latter is the energy it takes to heat 1 kilogram of water by 1 degree Celcius. Since "kilo" also means 1000, what one person calls "100 calories" can be "100 kilocalories" to another, because the first person means "100 kilogram calories", and the second person means "100000 gram calories". So they can actually both be right, because the same name is used for two different units.

 

[Fredrik]

True, the correct saying is "I couldn't care less". It's a put down meaning "I don't give a damn."

The mistaken "i could care less" isn't a put down, it means "I do care" and it's just people hearing and repeating the correct phrase wrong.

I think Curious meant that some people are saying it wrong on purpose.

We have a few phrases like that in Sweden. One phrase that was popular about 15 years ago is "hur bra är det på en skala?" which translates to "how good is that on a scale?". When I first heard it, I thought the people saying it had to be complete idiots. Obviously, you have to specify the scale, like "how good is that on a scale from 1 to 10?". But I soon discovered that people who use this phrase understand this. They think it's funny precisely because it doesn't make sense.

Of course, there's an important difference between this and "I could care less". The difference is that no one really uses the logically correct question.