Looking for software to help me make electromagnets

[MIKESMIND]

TL;DR Summary

I want to make some electro magnets and would like to not make ones that are useless for what I need. I would like to know if there is software that would help me with core shape, the end shape, magnetic fields strength, cooling. These will be high power units 2000 LBs and above. Someplace to start would be helpful.

This is home project that I have wanted to do for years. I know I will have to build a lot of them to get what I need. I am hoping to find some software that will help me. I have looked and I can not find any electromagnets that will work. I will have to have odd shaped cores and they will need cooling. This will be a I__I shaped unit. If anyone knows of software that I test free or is older and free please let me know

 

[berkeman]

These will be high power units 2000 LBs and above.

Um, what are you' going to be lifting, Mike?

 

[MIKESMIND]

They are not for lifting I can get them a lot of places

 

[berkeman]

They are not for lifting I can get them a lot of places

??

 

[MIKESMIND]

If it works and I patent it I may tell you

 

[Baluncore]

If it works and I patent it I may tell you

You need first to protect your investment with a patent. Then advise us of your patent number.

The initial design should be done by someone who understands the application. Final optimisation of that design using software may then refine the solution. I hesitate to invest time trying to identify software, to optimise the kernel of an electromagnetic machine, for an unspecified application, in an unspecified context.

What is the frequency or waveform of the magnet current?

 

[berkeman]

If it works and I patent it I may tell you

But if I can read Mike's Mind, I can maybe file the patent before you and make all the money for myself!

https://miro.medium.com/

 

[DaveC426913]

This is home project...

These will be high power units 2000 LBs and above.

...build a lot of them...

If you're sensing a bit of hesitancy, you're not wrong. There is an unwritten rule here at PF that we try to avoid giving advice that has the potential to harm or kill a budding inventor who may not be sufficiently competent.

 

[hutchphd]

Please take to heart the comments so far. Paranoia is never useful.
I think you could learn a lot from a program I have used called vizimag. I believe you can try it for 30 days free:

http://downloads.fyxm.net/Vizimag-111724.html

Good luck and take care.

 

[MIKESMIND]

If you're sensing a bit of hesitancy, you're not wrong. There is an unwritten rule here at PF that we try to avoid giving advice that has the potential to harm or kill a budding inventor who may not be sufficiently competent.

There is only one moving part and it is the switch

 

[DaveC426913]

There is only one moving part and it is the switch

If you are operating "a lot" of "2000lb" electromagnets, you may be astonished at what parts move that you didn't intend to - and how lethal they may be.

 

[jrmichler]

Take a look at US Patent 6,389,941. The electromagnets in that patent were designed for 1600 lbs force at 50 amps through a 1/8" air gap. It needed about 170 peak volts to get the 50 amps at the desired frequencies. My hazy recollection is that we used 0.015" thick motor lamination steel from Tempel Steel. The steel thickness was selected to meet the frequency requirement of approximately 55 Hz. We bought the steel in rolls, and cut the laminations on a laser cutter. Four stacks, each 4" thick, per machine tied up the laser cutter for some time.

The design calculations could easily have been done with pencil and paper, but were done in a spreadsheet in order to save them on the company network. Good search terms to get started: Electromagnet calculations. The drawing below is from the invention disclosure:

And be advised that the US Patent Office has a special program for small entities. It's called a provisional patent application. The filing fee used to be $65.00, it gives you one year to file a full patent application. During that year, you are allowed to use the term "patent pending", and to show or sell the idea to anybody. Details on their web site: https://www.uspto.gov/

 

[MIKESMIND]

If you are operating "a lot" of "2000lb" electromagnets, you may be astonished at what parts move that you didn't intend to - and how lethal they may be.

It will be in a safe area and tested up to 2000lps slowly

 

[MIKESMIND]

If you are operating "a lot" of "2000lb" electromagnets, you may be astonished at what parts move that you didn't intend to - and how lethal they may be.

I made one like it 30 years ago and this is safe as can be. Testing will be done in a safe area. Working unit will be destructive testing done first. So unless dirt will burn after the power is off I will be safe. I also have water to the under ground room. I was a old bomb shelter.

 

[berkeman]

I made one like it 30 years ago and this is safe as can be. Testing will be done in a safe area. Working unit will be destructive testing done first. So unless dirt will burn after the power is off I will be safe. I also have water to the under ground room. I was a old bomb shelter.

Lordy! You're starting to scare me, son...

 

[MIKESMIND]

Take a look at US Patent 6,389,941. The electromagnets in that patent were designed for 1600 lbs force at 50 amps through a 1/8" air gap. It needed about 170 peak volts to get the 50 amps at the desired frequencies. My hazy recollection is that we used 0.015" thick motor lamination steel from Tempel Steel. The steel thickness was selected to meet the frequency requirement of approximately 55 Hz. We bought the steel in rolls, and cut the laminations on a laser cutter. Four stacks, each 4" thick, per machine tied up the laser cutter for some time.

The design calculations could easily have been done with pencil and paper, but were done in a spreadsheet in order to save them on the company network. Good search terms to get started: Electromagnet calculations. The drawing below is from the invention disclosure:
View attachment 255030
And be advised that the US Patent Office has a special program for small entities. It's called a provisional patent application. The filing fee used to be $65.00, it gives you one year to file a full patent application. During that year, you are allowed to use the term "patent pending", and to show or sell the idea to anybody. Details on their web site: https://www.uspto.gov/

That is in no way like what I am making. One year would be ok but I think I will need more time. I also may not be selling them. Right now there are 10 to 15 companies that do anything that would like it. This will do it at 1% of the cost.

 

[MIKESMIND]

This needs to be proto typed and the math will come from the tests on the unit.

 

[Tom.G]

https://www.google.com/search?&q=free+electromagnet+design+software

 

[Baluncore]

This needs to be proto typed and the math will come from the tests on the unit.

To get the prototype to work will need some mathematics and arithmetic.
Once a prototype is built, computer modelling may reduce the cost of mass production.

If anyone knows of software that I test free or is older and free please let me know

So you are two-faced, wanting public domain software, but will not put your idea in the public domain.

I also may not be selling them.

If you will not be selling, then why invest time and thousands of dollars in patents? Why not publish the idea here and now, to prevent others patenting it later. Put it in the public domain, make it open-source and available to all. Think of the money and time you will save.

Think of all the help you could then get from a forum of engineers.

 

[jrmichler]

If you will not be selling, then why invest time and thousands of dollars in patents? Why not publish the idea here and now, to prevent others patenting it later. Put it in the public domain, make it open-source and available to all. Think of the money and time you will save.

This.

If you publish without a patent, you get credit for the idea without the cost of a patent.

There are three reasons to get a patent:
1) To persuade investors that you have something that nobody else has to get them to give you money.
2) To prevent competitors from copying your intellectual property.
3) Because patents look good on your resume. Or to convince future employers that you actually are creative. Or to get a certificate to hang on the wall.

This will do it at 1% of the cost.

Be advised that the pull force of an electromagnet is 58 lbs per square inch of pole area at 1.0 Tesla. No more, no less. Getting that field requires pole area, back iron, ampere-turns, and enough copper to conduct the amperes. You can use fewer turns with more amperes, or more turns with fewer amperes, but the I^2*R loss will be the same. If you have an air gap, the ampere-turns go way up. Steel, copper, and insulation all cost money. This is physics, and wishful thinking does not change the laws.

On the other hand, if your design life is measured in single digit microseconds (search term quarter crusher), then it is possible to build a lower cost electromagnet.