Magnetic field inside a solenoid

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around deriving the magnetic field inside a solenoid, with participants expressing confusion over the integration limits and angle definitions in the derivation. One user suggests that the book's representation of angles and arc lengths is incorrect, particularly regarding the relationship between dx and the arc length r dθ. They emphasize the need for a visual illustration to clarify the derivation process. Another user attempts to clarify the relationship between the angles and the resulting equations, while also requesting the source of the referenced book. The conversation highlights the complexities involved in understanding the geometry of the problem.
fisher garry
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I have a problem with the derivation above I don't get how
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Can someone derive this and illustrate this visually for example by using Figure 2 or using another drawing?
 
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It looks wrong to me. The book should have ##\theta## going clockwise with ##\theta = 0## as the vertical, and be integrating from ##-\frac{\pi}{2} + \theta_0## to ##\frac{\pi}{2} - \theta_0##.

It looks like the book has two wrongs making a right.

PS with the above I get ##dx = \frac{r d\theta}{\cos \theta}##
 
well it is not from a textbook it is a document I recieved. Unfortunately I am a bit lost from
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and the equations afterwards. Could you derive how to get to:
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starting from
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fisher garry said:
well it is not from a textbook it is a document I recieved. Unfortunately I am a bit lost from
View attachment 254268

You're lost because that is wrong. Try what I posted.
 
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I have tried to illustrate my problem in the drawing above. Since ##r d\theta## is normal to the radius r and approximately linear since it is a short part of the bowlength the angle between dx and ##r d\theta## should be the same as the angle between r and x that makes cosinus. But what if the fraction ##\frac{r d\theta}{dx}## and the ##\frac{r }{x}## is not the same? We don't know the length of ##r d\theta## measured up to r and the length of dx measured up to x?
 
fisher garry said:
View attachment 254289

I have tried to illustrate my problem in the drawing above. Since ##r d\theta## is normal to the radius r and approximately linear since it is a short part of the bowlength the angle between dx and ##r d\theta## should be the same as the angle between r and x that makes cosinus. But what if the fraction ##\frac{r d\theta}{dx}## and the ##\frac{r }{x}## is not the same? We don't know the length of ##r d\theta## measured up to r and the length of dx measured up to x?
Angles and infinitesimals - ugh.

Maybe this explanation helps.
##r d\theta## is the arc length, call that da,which for a radius r perpendicular to the axis would have dx = da.
A we deviate from the vertical, r increases in length, the arc length da is no longer parallel to the axis. We have to find the dx portion of da.
 
fisher garry said:
View attachment 254289

I have tried to illustrate my problem in the drawing above. Since ##r d\theta## is normal to the radius r and approximately linear since it is a short part of the bowlength the angle between dx and ##r d\theta## should be the same as the angle between r and x that makes cosinus. But what if the fraction ##\frac{r d\theta}{dx}## and the ##\frac{r }{x}## is not the same? We don't know the length of ##r d\theta## measured up to r and the length of dx measured up to x?

As I said above, I'll take ##\theta## going clockwise from the vertical, so that ##\theta## and ##x## have the same sign.

##x = R\tan \theta, \ \ R = r\cos \theta, \ \ x = r\sin \theta##

##dx = R \sec^2 \theta d\theta = \frac{r d\theta}{\cos \theta}##
 
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fisher garry said:
@fisher garry: can you please let us know which book you referred for above relation in your picture posted?
 
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