Manipulate partial derivatives to obtain desired physical expression

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around demonstrating the equivalence of various expressions involving partial derivatives related to pressure and temperature in the context of the ideal gas law. The subject area includes thermodynamics and the manipulation of partial derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between pressure and temperature using the ideal gas law, questioning how to maintain constant volume during differentiation. There is an attempt to manipulate expressions A, B, and C to show their equivalence.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided calculations and reasoning to support their interpretations of the expressions. There is a recognition of the relationships derived from the ideal gas law, but no consensus on the correctness of the final results has been reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the constraints of keeping volume constant while differentiating, and there is uncertainty regarding the operations needed to manipulate the expressions correctly.

Roo2
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Homework Statement



Show that the expression A,

T(dP/dT)|V - P

is equal to expression B,

T^2 * [d(P/T)/dT]|V

Also, show that expression C,

-[d(P/T)/d(1/T)]|V

is also equal to expression B

Homework Equations



A: temperature * (dPresure/dTemperature at constant volume) - Pressue

B: Temperature^2 * d(Pressure/Temperature)/dTemperature at constant volume

C: - d(Pressure/Temperature)/d(1/Temperature) at constant volume

The Attempt at a Solution



Uhh... P/T = nR/V and 1/T = nR/PV... but I'm not sure how to keep the volumes and pressures constant in my solution. I feel like the second question should be especially simple but I just don't see the operations needed to do it. Could anyone help?
 
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The starting point is the ideal gas law, expressed in terms of P as a function of T:

P(T) = (nRT)/V

Now, if V = const., then P is just proportional to T, (i.e. P = const. * T), with the constant of proportionality given by: nR/V

Take expression A. Let's just focus on the partial derivative:

[tex]\frac{\partial P(T)}{\partial T}\bigg|_V = \frac{\partial}{\partial T}\left( \frac{nR}{V}T\right) \bigg|_V = \frac{nR}{V}[/tex]

where the last step is just because the effect of differentiating w.r.t. T is to get rid of the factor of T and keep the constant out front.

Now, if you multiply this partial derivative by T, you just get back what you started with. If you then subtract P, what is THAT equal to? :wink:
 
Mmk... So using that, I get the following relationship.

T(dP/dT)|V - P =

T(d[nRT/V]/dT] - P =

T(nR/V) - nRT/V = 0

Also,

T^2 d(P/T)/dT | V = T^2 (d[nR/V]/dT) = 0

Is this correct?



cepheid said:
The starting point is the ideal gas law, expressed in terms of P as a function of T:

P(T) = (nRT)/V

Now, if V = const., then P is just proportional to T, (i.e. P = const. * T), with the constant of proportionality given by: nR/V

Take expression A. Let's just focus on the partial derivative:

[tex]\frac{\partial P(T)}{\partial T}\bigg|_V = \frac{\partial}{\partial T}\left( \frac{nR}{V}T\right) \bigg|_V = \frac{nR}{V}[/tex]

where the last step is just because the effect of differentiating w.r.t. T is to get rid of the factor of T and keep the constant out front.

Now, if you multiply this partial derivative by T, you just get back what you started with. If you then subtract P, what is THAT equal to? :wink:
 
Roo2 said:
Mmk... So using that, I get the following relationship.

T(dP/dT)|V - P =

T(d[nRT/V]/dT] - P =

T(nR/V) - nRT/V = 0

Also,

T^2 d(P/T)/dT | V = T^2 (d[nR/V]/dT) = 0

Is this correct?

Yes, I think that that is correct.
 
Thanks!
 

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